Women, strength, liberation

[puzzled]

15 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

you are aware that many anti-dasam and anti-sikh people have tried to claim this is autobiographical reference because they made the same assumption you did , that Anoop Kaur had tried to seduce Guru ji ... remember this tales are taken from common 'folk cautionary tales that existed prior' and reiterated in Guru ji's stories within story

Even if the story is true then it really isn't any different to the women of the women of kaamroop and assam who tried to seduce Guru Nanak Dev Ji  would it?     

Or Kalyug offering Guru Nanak Dev ji all worldly pleasures and comforts.

Guru Jis came across murderers, thugs, rapists, even family members that were traitors, so whats so hard to believe about them coming across loose women of the time?    

How the male reacted in the story of anoop kaur is how every sikh male should respond if he finds himself in a similar situation. 

 

[puzzled]

3 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

Mata ji of Guru Angad dev ji was hindu but her name was Mata Daya Kaur ji

true  but it still doesn't mean that anoop kaur was a non Sikh. 

[jkvlondon]

5 hours ago, puzzled said:

true  but it still doesn't mean that anoop kaur was a non Sikh. 

trying to point out that it is not necessarily a fact that only sikhs had the name . If I remember the story it doesn't say she is ...just from a respected family. I know that the Sri Lankan King sent temptresses to Guru Nanak Dev ji . I agree that it is the actions of the characters are important and the proper response.

[Guest Women]

On 1/31/2020 at 9:15 PM, dallysingh101 said:

Well, you don't know a lot of excessively stout Panjaban types (even if they were slim when young). They do everything they can to dominate a family. Most of the puppoos out there are the offspring of control freak, domineering bibian! Then the behaviour of these women towards new, better looking, better educated daughter in laws is appalling to the extreme and the cause of many family break ups, but you don't hear any jananis ponking about that problem!

 

Yes, it's true, but I've even met daft birds who've actually chosen to be with some abusive guy, despite having lots of other options and have had strokes and crap. It's not straightforward.  Women often get attracted to flash, 'charming' types who end up having NPD, like where is your brains at? A lot of apneean think like children for some reason, that's why they get groomed so often. No smarts whatsoever. I think generally though, we need more clued up convos with the younger ones when growing up. Apnay (especially from back home) just relegate this responsibility (I don't even think they realise why it may be a good idea!) then you have puppoo and pinky out in the real world like lambs to the slaughter!

Well, a first thing is for women to stop emasculating young men in their family and removing their anakh, just because it's cuddly for them. That doesn't mean we encourage full on pendu bwaah! bwaaah! jut type stupidity btw.

If this type of crap was going on in the family, why didn't someone stomp someone else over it? Are all the men pajamas? What's the state of the blokes? Most abusers choose their prey quite carefully, making sure that they don't have any serious physical threat to themselves if exposed. That needs to change. Not only for what goes on internally, but we should all know the score about grooming by outsiders now.  

Raising strong, ethical boys and keeping an eye out for pedos is a must. That doesn't mean those caste obsessed fudhus that think they are tough but shyte themselves about any action that will make them collide with the police or genuine physical threats. Or the other type that is just some liability - more likely to attack their own than anyone else. I think in terms of raising boys, apneean are frequently proper shyte and bottom of the barrel. If we are raising soft boys - expect other more predatory individuals and cultures/religions to view us as easy prey. 

Mainly though, you can help these women by having older, cool role models who speak and teach them, especially during the crucial period just before and after puberty. - but you hardly see any jananis like this. Clueless. Then it's all dumped on blokes, like we've got to figure out everything for you. Try using your own brains and manipulating that 'girl-code' thing you all live by maybe? 

 

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE MEN ON HERE???

Im asking how we can HELP WOMEN WHO HAVE BEEN ABUSED, NOT HOW MEN FEEL LIKE THEYRE BEING ATTACKED WHEN THIS TRUTH HAS BEEN BROUGHT TO LIGHT.

 

Shame on the men here. I will. Go to another forum and find answers somewhere else. Completely Insane. 

[Guest Women]

15 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

Mata ji of Guru Angad dev ji was hindu but her name was Mata Daya Kaur ji

JKV don’t bother, men on here clearly have some issues and have just proved a point. This Entire thread has turned into a woman bashing session, most of the men on here are Primitive. 

[puzzled]

10 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

trying to point out that it is not necessarily a fact that only sikhs had the name . If I remember the story it doesn't say she is ...just from a respected family. I know that the Sri Lankan King sent temptresses to Guru Nanak Dev ji . I agree that it is the actions of the characters are important and the proper response.

Lol but you cant deny that it's very possible that it could be a sikh woman as well. 

[jkvlondon]

6 hours ago, puzzled said:

Lol but you cant deny that it's very possible that it could be a sikh woman as well. 

yeah I admit I have a massive problem doubting that a Sikh who had amrit in that era could fall so far, maybe because I believe that if Guru ji can give brahamgian just with a glance/touch that amrit made by his panj could allow that mental state to occur , I can't doubt Guru ji , ever

[dallysingh101]

11 hours ago, Guest Women said:

JKV don’t bother, men on here clearly have some issues and have just proved a point. This Entire thread has turned into a woman bashing session, most of the men on here are Primitive. 

A little critical reflection on apneean's part isn't amiss either.  Look at how you simplify the issue like a six year old. Both men and women have got to reflect and change. You want to see the rep some apneean have given themselves over here - not flattering at all.....

[dallysingh101]

2 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

yeah I admit I have a massive problem doubting that a Sikh who had amrit in that era could fall so far, maybe because I believe that if Guru ji can give brahamgian just with a glance/touch that amrit made by his panj could allow that mental state to occur , I can't doubt Guru ji , ever

Your making the same mistake Bhai Gurdas did when he thought that he was automatically infallible due to Guru ji's unwavering grace. Remember the sakhi about bhai sahib going to Afghanistan/Iraq(?) to buy horses and getting conned and then avoiding Guru sahib out of shame and then amending the vaar that made such a bold supposition? I don't think we ever lose that capacity to falter, it's the nit jungh against it that is the battle. 

Plus we have Panth Prakash stating that some Singhnia (probably scared, young and impressionable?) were seduced by the Brars in whose territory Sikhs were compelled to stay, due to being hunted by the state. 

[S1ngh]

Maybe i post my opinion in this hotly talked topic....

Sikh culture shows that common 'educated' Sikh household respects girl(s) in the family. However, there is also big problem of treating females not too well mostly psychological mental way. 

Blaming Sikh culture

We have a group who been thru terrible abuse by male or family (mental, physical) but they should not paint the whole sikh society having the same character as of their abuser. Sikhs and our dharam is the first in this world which gave the equal right to female gender - way before the west and others did. Please do not copy the west definition of equality but research the khalsa based gender equality. 

Blaming Sikh girls

Sikh females who are outspoken on the abuse problems of female gender and highlighting those problem should not be rejected based on your/our own personal opinion that these bibian are too much feminist and bringing our culture down. Do not paint them with the same picture of 'some' loose character girls some of members mentioned in this thread of clubbing, smoking, drinking etc. It is insulting. 

All above abuse problem is there due to lack of sikh dharam playing central role in the family.

Having sikh dharam playing the central role will help the following:

• Male members will stop drinking like a crazy drunkard. Most abuse happens due to abuse of alcoholism.
• Implementation of simple anand karaj. Root problem of 'kuri maar' social evil is due to dowry.
• Treat sikh boys and girls all same. Same piyar and responsibilities given to them.
• Equal divide of inheritance

Both sides of debates should realize that this abuse is there in every community but Sikhs can easily tackle this problem due to the guidelines that our guru sahib jee wrote for us (gurbani). We are lucky to have the treasure but still are not tacking this problem or deny to confirm this problem.