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Do all paths that jap naam lead you back to akaal Purakh?


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17 minutes ago, Akalifauj said:

Who said chanting Raam Raam is simran of Akal Purkh?  Again I repeat, Anand Sahib says without the Guru they are chanting har har and they don't receive the Guru's blessing.   Have you read Anand Sahib the paath.  Answer the questions.  Which Raam are they remembering? Which Guru gave them naam.  Stop making claims and start showing the sangat here what Gurbani says.  Gurbani says, sing Gurbani and help others to sing it.  Anand Sahib says,  come beloved SIKHS and sing the Guru's Bani.  

yh i have read Anand Sahib

ganika the prostitute was saved by chanting ram naam,  a sadhoo simply told her to chant raam naam, she was a hindu prostitute and gained mukhti by chanting raam naam, who told her to chant it? a sadhoo did.  her story is mentioned by bhai Gurdas ji in his vaarns. shes also mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib ji as well.  Not sure where i read it either in bhai Gurdas Jis vaarns or Dasam bani but it mentioned how she became a yogni and was received with great celebrations when she gained mukti.

well i cant tell you which raam they chant, you need to go and ask a hindu that yourself

 

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1 minute ago, puzzled said:

yh i have read Anand Sahib

ganika the prostitute was saved by chanting ram naam,  a sadhoo simply told her to chant raam naam, she was a hindu prostitute and gained mukhti by chanting raam naam, who told her to chant it? a sadhoo did.  her story is mentioned by bhai Gurdas ji in his vaarns. shes also mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib ji as well.  Not sure where i read it either in bhai Gurdas Jis vaarns or Dasam bani but it mentioned how she became a yogni and was received with great celebrations when she gained mukti.

well i cant tell you which raam they chant, you need to go and ask a hindu that yourself

 

Does Gurbani say how Ganika received mukhti?  Does a sadhoo tell her to repeat Raam or raam naam.  If you believe the sadhoo had told her to repeat Raam naam, then who is this sadhoo Guru?  Does Gurbani speak of thos sadhoo?

You don't know which Raam they are remembering.   Thanks for being honest here.  Therefore you cant say they are doing naam simran.  Gurbani speaks on hindus and if the hindus are remembering according to their customs.  Then it is not naam simran.

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8 minutes ago, Akalifauj said:

Does Gurbani say how Ganika received mukhti?  Does a sadhoo tell her to repeat Raam or raam naam.  If you believe the sadhoo had told her to repeat Raam naam, then who is this sadhoo Guru?  Does Gurbani speak of thos sadhoo?

 

Yes gurbani says she received mukti  read it for yourself,  yes bhai gurdas ji says she received mukti with raam naam,  its not that i believe a sadhoo gave her raam naam,  bhai gurdas ji tells us that.        that answers all your questions, unless your now in denial      

so if bhai gurdas ji tells us she received mukti with raam naam, and gurbani tells us she received mukti       whats your point then ....

8 minutes ago, Akalifauj said:

You don't know which Raam they are remembering.   Thanks for being honest here.  Therefore you cant say they are doing naam simran. 

just because i said i dont know which raam they are chanting dont mean iv just spoke for a billion hindus,   like i said go out there and ask hindus which raam they chanting.      

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Here is the story of ganika a hindu prostitute who was saved by chanting raam naam.   It's from bhai gurdas his vaarns but shes also mention in guru granth sahib ji and dasam bani.  Bhai gurdas ji also mentions other sinful non sikhs that were saved by chanting the creators name.

 

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2 hours ago, puzzled said:

Just because i said i dont know which raam they are chanting dont mean iv just spoke for a billion hindus,   like i said go out there and ask hindus which raam they chanting.      

You conveniently forgot to quote how I said the below about Hindus

"Gurbani speaks on hindus and if the hindus are remembering according to their customs.  Then it is not naam simran."

honesty is higher than winning an argument.   Also stop with the smoke screen of ganika true story.  Ganika story has nothing to do with you starting off by saying, 

hindus do simran though, they do simran of ram naam.

Ganika was not a hindu, so why even present this story. 

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Raam naam is given by Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.   Hence I told you to read Anand Sahib.   It's the reality Gurbani teaches.  I don't make the rules.  Gurbani is the key to simran of Vaheguru.   No other religion or holy text or person has this key.  Before you quote Bhagat kabir ji or some other line from Gurbani out of context.  Think twice because it will not take long before that also gets shot down.  Remember this, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji placed his head on the ground before Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.   The Guru got down on his knees and bowed before the King.  He did not place no other holy text or man or statue on a higher platform and bow.  And before you go into this rant about how Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is the Guru of the Sikhs only, then you have shown how you have not understood who Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is in reality.  You will be saying gravity only applies to one group of people and not these other ones. 

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10 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

You conveniently forgot to quote how I said the below about Hindus

"Gurbani speaks on hindus and if the hindus are remembering according to their customs.  Then it is not naam simran."

honesty is higher than winning an argument.   Also stop with the smoke screen of ganika true story.  Ganika story has nothing to do with you starting off by saying, 

 

Ganika was not a hindu, so why even present this story. 

Your just talking gibberish now 

End of the day Ganika was a hindu prostitute, and a hindu sadhoo told her to do jaap of Raam Naam and gubani and bhai gurdas jis vaarns tell us that she received mukti.   So a hindu too can recive mukti by chanting raam naam. Which defeats your whole argument.  Ganika chanted raam naam with a parrot.     

Other examples of hindus that bhai gurdas ji gives in his vaarns.

Bhagat dhru was given naam by nard muni. Bhagat dru then rejected his fathers kingdom 

Even draupati is mentioned by bhai gurdas jis vaarns and how the lord saves her honor.

Ajmaal a sinner named his son narayan. On his death bes he would repeat sons name narayan again and again calling him over, just by doing this, bhai gurdas jis tells us that his sins were washed and he was saved.

And what about raja Janak? 

Ganika chanted raam naam with a parrot, ajamaal chanted his sons name narayaan again and again  and both were saved.

If hindus too chant gods name like these people they too will be saved. Out of a billion there are many that do. 

You've got nothing to write back so your just going in circles now . Just be honest with with yourself. 

 

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17 hours ago, puzzled said:

Your just talking gibberish now 

End of the day Ganika was a hindu prostitute, and a hindu sadhoo told her to do jaap of Raam Naam and gubani and bhai gurdas jis vaarns tell us that she received mukti.   So a hindu too can recive mukti by chanting raam naam. Which defeats your whole argument.  Ganika chanted raam naam with a parrot.     

Other examples of hindus that bhai gurdas ji gives in his vaarns.

Bhagat dhru was given naam by nard muni. Bhagat dru then rejected his fathers kingdom 

Even draupati is mentioned by bhai gurdas jis vaarns and how the lord saves her honor.

Ajmaal a sinner named his son narayan. On his death bes he would repeat sons name narayan again and again calling him over, just by doing this, bhai gurdas jis tells us that his sins were washed and he was saved.

And what about raja Janak? 

Ganika chanted raam naam with a parrot, ajamaal chanted his sons name narayaan again and again  and both were saved.

If hindus too chant gods name like these people they too will be saved. Out of a billion there are many that do. 

You've got nothing to write back so your just going in circles now . Just be honest with with yourself. 

 

I have searched Gurbani and no where can I find Ganika was a hindu.  What I find is how Ganika received mukhti.  Guru Sahib says she did simran on Vaheguru through teaching a parrot the name of the Lord.  And now you are fumbling other saved souls names into your blind assessment.  When I read Gurbani, all I see is these souls also remembered Vaheguru and they were saved.  Whether that be ajmaal, bhagat dhru, draupati, etc.  No where in Gurbani any of these souls claiming to be hindu or Gurbani saying they were hindu.  These souls did simran and they were saved.  You keep making outlandish claims but refuse to answer key answers.  If you believe being born in a hindu family makes a person hindu than Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji would be a hindu by your frivolous and irrational belief.

Okay let's make this simple because the Guru has written Gurbani for every soul to read, understand,  and apply.  What is the back bone of Hindus?  It's the vedas and those who wrote them.  And the devta and devi they worship.  What does Gurbani say about them?  If Gurbani accepts them to be Satguru than yes they can give Naam/naam simran.  If they are anything less than they can't give naam simran and through the hindu system mukhti can't be achieved. 

Read the below Gurbani.  This is bhagat kabir ji speaking.  Bhagat ji yearned for the darshan of Vaheguru and sent Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji his first form to pull bhagat kabir ji out the spiritual torture he was.  Now listen to bhagat ji words after meeting Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji 

ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ ਕੀ
Raag Dhanaasaree, The Word Of Devotee Kabeer Jee:

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਸਨਕ ਸਨੰਦ ਮਹੇਸ ਸਮਾਨਾਂ ॥ ਸੇਖਨਾਗਿ ਤੇਰੋ ਮਰਮੁ ਨ ਜਾਨਾਂ ॥੧॥
ਹੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ! (ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਦੇ ਪੁੱਤਰਾਂ) ਸਨਕ, ਸਨੰਦ ਅਤੇ ਸ਼ਿਵ ਜੀ ਵਰਗਿਆਂ ਨੇ ਤੇਰਾ ਭੇਦ ਨਹੀਂ ਪਾਇਆ; (ਵਿਸ਼ਨੂ ਦੇ ਭਗਤ) ਸ਼ੇਸ਼ਨਾਗ ਨੇ ਤੇਰੇ (ਦਿਲ ਦਾ) ਰਾਜ਼ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਮਝਿਆ ।੧।
Beings like Sanak, Sanand, Shiva and Shaysh-naaga - none of them know Your mystery, Lord. ||1||

ਸੰਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਰਾਮੁ ਰਿਦੈ ਬਸਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
ਮੈਂ ਸੰਤਾਂ ਦੀ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਵਿਚ ਰਹਿ ਕੇ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨੂੰ ਆਪਣੇ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਵਿਚ ਵਸਾਉਂਦਾ ਹਾਂ ।੧।ਰਹਾਉ।
In the Society of the Saints, the Lord dwells within the heart. ||1||Pause||

ਹਨੂਮਾਨ ਸਰਿ ਗਰੁੜ ਸਮਾਨਾਂ ॥ ਸੁਰਪਤਿ ਨਰਪਤਿ ਨਹੀ ਗੁਨ ਜਾਨਾਂ ॥੨॥
(ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮ ਚੰਦਰ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਸੇਵਕ) ਹਨੂਮਾਨ ਵਰਗੇ ਨੇ, (ਵਿਸ਼ਨੂ ਦੇ ਸੇਵਕ ਤੇ ਪੰਛੀਆਂ ਦੇ ਰਾਜੇ) ਗਰੁੜ ਵਰਗਿਆਂ ਨੇ, ਦੇਵਤਿਆਂ ਦੇ ਰਾਜੇ ਇੰਦਰ ਨੇ, ਵੱਡੇ ਵੱਡੇ ਰਾਜਿਆਂ ਨੇ ਭੀ ਤੇਰੇ ਗੁਣਾਂ ਦਾ ਅੰਤ ਨਹੀਂ ਪਾਇਆ ।੨।
Beings like Hanumaan, Garura, Indra the King of the gods and the rulers of humans - none of them know Your Glories, Lord. ||2||

ਚਾਰਿ ਬੇਦ ਅਰੁ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਪੁਰਾਨਾਂ ॥ ਕਮਲਾਪਤਿ ਕਵਲਾ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਨਾਂ ॥੩॥
ਚਾਰ ਵੇਦ, (ਅਠਾਰਾਂ) ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤੀਆਂ, (ਅਠਾਰਾਂ) ਪੁਰਾਣ—(ਇਹਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਕਰਤਾ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ, ਮਨੂ ਤੇ ਹੋਰ ਰਿਸ਼ੀਆਂ) ਨੇ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਮਝਿਆ; ਵਿਸ਼ਨੂ ਤੇ ਲੱਛਮੀ ਨੇ ਭੀ ਤੇਰਾ ਅੰਤ ਨਹੀਂ ਪਾਇਆ ।੩।
The four Vedas, the Simritees and the Puraanas, Vishnu the Lord of Lakshmi and Lakshmi herself - none of them know the Lord. ||3||

ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਸੋ ਭਰਮੈ ਨਾਹੀ ॥ ਪਗ ਲਗਿ ਰਾਮ ਰਹੈ ਸਰਨਾਂਹੀ ॥੪॥੧॥
ਕਬੀਰ ਆਖਦਾ ਹੈ—(ਬਾਕੀ ਸਾਰੀ ਸ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਟੀ ਦੇ ਲੋਕ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੂੰ ਛੱਡ ਕੇ ਹੋਰ ਹੋਰ ਪਾਸੇ ਭਟਕਦੇ ਰਹੇ) ਇੱਕ ਉਹ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਭਟਕਦਾ ਨਹੀਂ, ਜੋ (ਸੰਤਾਂ ਦੀ) ਚਰਨੀਂ ਲੱਗ ਕੇ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੀ ਸ਼ਰਨ ਵਿਚ ਟਿਕਿਆ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ ।੪।੧।
Says Kabeer, one who falls at the Lord's feet, and remains in His Sanctuary, does not wander around lost. ||4||1||

SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI - 691 
RAAG DHANAASREE BHAGAT KABEER JI

If the hindu system can give naam simran.  Then why would bhagat ji write to say they don't know the Lord? Bhai Gurdas ji Vaar are based on Gurbani, so present what you think is relevant here.  

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7 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

I have searched Gurbani and no where can I find Ganika was a hindu.  What I find is how Ganika received mukhti.  Guru Sahib says she did simran on Vaheguru through teaching a parrot the name of the Lord.  And now you are fumbling other saved souls names into your blind assessment.  When I read Gurbani, all I see is these souls also remembered Vaheguru and they were saved.  Whether that be ajmaal, bhagat dhru, draupati, etc.  No where in Gurbani any of these souls claiming to be hindu or Gurbani saying they were hindu.  These souls did simran and they were saved.  You keep making outlandish claims but refuse to answer key answers.  If you believe being born in a hindu family makes a person hindu than Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji would be a hindu by your frivolous and irrational belief.

Okay let's make this simple because the Guru has written Gurbani for every soul to read, understand,  and apply.  What is the back bone of Hindus?  It's the vedas and those who wrote them.  And the devta and devi they worship.  What does Gurbani say about them?  If Gurbani accepts them to be Satguru than yes they can give Naam/naam simran.  If they are anything less than they can't give naam simran and through the hindu system mukhti can't be achieved. 

Read the below Gurbani.  This is bhagat kabir ji speaking.  Bhagat ji yearned for the darshan of Vaheguru and sent Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji his first form to pull bhagat kabir ji out the spiritual torture he was.  Now listen to bhagat ji words after meeting Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji 

ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ ਕੀ
Raag Dhanaasaree, The Word Of Devotee Kabeer Jee:

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਸਨਕ ਸਨੰਦ ਮਹੇਸ ਸਮਾਨਾਂ ॥ ਸੇਖਨਾਗਿ ਤੇਰੋ ਮਰਮੁ ਨ ਜਾਨਾਂ ॥੧॥
ਹੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ! (ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਦੇ ਪੁੱਤਰਾਂ) ਸਨਕ, ਸਨੰਦ ਅਤੇ ਸ਼ਿਵ ਜੀ ਵਰਗਿਆਂ ਨੇ ਤੇਰਾ ਭੇਦ ਨਹੀਂ ਪਾਇਆ; (ਵਿਸ਼ਨੂ ਦੇ ਭਗਤ) ਸ਼ੇਸ਼ਨਾਗ ਨੇ ਤੇਰੇ (ਦਿਲ ਦਾ) ਰਾਜ਼ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਮਝਿਆ ।੧।
Beings like Sanak, Sanand, Shiva and Shaysh-naaga - none of them know Your mystery, Lord. ||1||

ਸੰਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਰਾਮੁ ਰਿਦੈ ਬਸਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
ਮੈਂ ਸੰਤਾਂ ਦੀ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਵਿਚ ਰਹਿ ਕੇ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨੂੰ ਆਪਣੇ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਵਿਚ ਵਸਾਉਂਦਾ ਹਾਂ ।੧।ਰਹਾਉ।
In the Society of the Saints, the Lord dwells within the heart. ||1||Pause||

ਹਨੂਮਾਨ ਸਰਿ ਗਰੁੜ ਸਮਾਨਾਂ ॥ ਸੁਰਪਤਿ ਨਰਪਤਿ ਨਹੀ ਗੁਨ ਜਾਨਾਂ ॥੨॥
(ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮ ਚੰਦਰ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਸੇਵਕ) ਹਨੂਮਾਨ ਵਰਗੇ ਨੇ, (ਵਿਸ਼ਨੂ ਦੇ ਸੇਵਕ ਤੇ ਪੰਛੀਆਂ ਦੇ ਰਾਜੇ) ਗਰੁੜ ਵਰਗਿਆਂ ਨੇ, ਦੇਵਤਿਆਂ ਦੇ ਰਾਜੇ ਇੰਦਰ ਨੇ, ਵੱਡੇ ਵੱਡੇ ਰਾਜਿਆਂ ਨੇ ਭੀ ਤੇਰੇ ਗੁਣਾਂ ਦਾ ਅੰਤ ਨਹੀਂ ਪਾਇਆ ।੨।
Beings like Hanumaan, Garura, Indra the King of the gods and the rulers of humans - none of them know Your Glories, Lord. ||2||

ਚਾਰਿ ਬੇਦ ਅਰੁ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਪੁਰਾਨਾਂ ॥ ਕਮਲਾਪਤਿ ਕਵਲਾ ਨਹੀ ਜਾਨਾਂ ॥੩॥
ਚਾਰ ਵੇਦ, (ਅਠਾਰਾਂ) ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤੀਆਂ, (ਅਠਾਰਾਂ) ਪੁਰਾਣ—(ਇਹਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਕਰਤਾ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ, ਮਨੂ ਤੇ ਹੋਰ ਰਿਸ਼ੀਆਂ) ਨੇ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਮਝਿਆ; ਵਿਸ਼ਨੂ ਤੇ ਲੱਛਮੀ ਨੇ ਭੀ ਤੇਰਾ ਅੰਤ ਨਹੀਂ ਪਾਇਆ ।੩।
The four Vedas, the Simritees and the Puraanas, Vishnu the Lord of Lakshmi and Lakshmi herself - none of them know the Lord. ||3||

ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਸੋ ਭਰਮੈ ਨਾਹੀ ॥ ਪਗ ਲਗਿ ਰਾਮ ਰਹੈ ਸਰਨਾਂਹੀ ॥੪॥੧॥
ਕਬੀਰ ਆਖਦਾ ਹੈ—(ਬਾਕੀ ਸਾਰੀ ਸ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਟੀ ਦੇ ਲੋਕ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੂੰ ਛੱਡ ਕੇ ਹੋਰ ਹੋਰ ਪਾਸੇ ਭਟਕਦੇ ਰਹੇ) ਇੱਕ ਉਹ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਭਟਕਦਾ ਨਹੀਂ, ਜੋ (ਸੰਤਾਂ ਦੀ) ਚਰਨੀਂ ਲੱਗ ਕੇ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੀ ਸ਼ਰਨ ਵਿਚ ਟਿਕਿਆ ਰਹਿੰਦਾ ਹੈ ।੪।੧।
Says Kabeer, one who falls at the Lord's feet, and remains in His Sanctuary, does not wander around lost. ||4||1||

SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI - 691 
RAAG DHANAASREE BHAGAT KABEER JI

If the hindu system can give naam simran.  Then why would bhagat ji write to say they don't know the Lord? Bhai Gurdas ji Vaar are based on Gurbani, so present what you think is relevant here.  

So your saying ganika was a sikh prostitute? Why did she take advise from a sadhoo the? 

Im not talking about the hindu system  im talking about hindus remembering God and achieving mukti like the people I mentioned above.  If they remember god, like the hindus I mentioned above, then they too achieve mukti. 

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    • yeh it's true, we shouldn't be lazy and need to learn jhatka shikaar. It doesn't help some of grew up in surrounding areas like Slough and Southall where everyone thought it was super bad for amrit dharis to eat meat, and they were following Sant babas and jathas, and instead the Singhs should have been normalising jhatka just like the recent world war soldiers did. We are trying to rectifiy this and khalsa should learn jhatka.  But I am just writing about bhog for those that are still learning rehit. As I explained, there are all these negative influences in the panth that talk against rehit, but this shouldn't deter us from taking khanda pahul, no matter what level of rehit we are!
    • How is it going to help? The link is of a Sikh hunter. Fine, but what good does that do the lazy Sikh who ate khulla maas in a restaurant? By the way, for the OP, yes, it's against rehit to eat khulla maas.
    • Yeah, Sikhs should do bhog of food they eat. But the point of bhog is to only do bhog of food which is fit to be presented to Maharaj. It's not maryada to do bhog of khulla maas and pretend it's OK to eat. It's not. Come on, bro, you should know better than to bring this Sakhi into it. Is this Sikh in the restaurant accompanied by Guru Gobind Singh ji? Is he fighting a dharam yudh? Or is he merely filling his belly with the nearest restaurant?  Please don't make a mockery of our puratan Singhs' sacrifices by comparing them to lazy Sikhs who eat khulla maas.
    • Seriously?? The Dhadi is trying to be cute. For those who didn't get it, he said: "Some say Maharaj killed bakras (goats). Some say he cut the heads of the Panj Piyaras. The truth is that they weren't goats. It was she-goats (ਬਕਰੀਆਂ). He jhatka'd she-goats. Not he-goats." Wow. This is possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard in relation to Sikhi.
    • Instead of a 9 inch or larger kirpan, take a smaller kirpan and put it (without gatra) inside your smaller turban and tie the turban tightly. This keeps a kirpan on your person without interfering with the massage or alarming the masseuse. I'm not talking about a trinket but rather an actual small kirpan that fits in a sheath (you'll have to search to find one). As for ahem, "problems", you could get a male masseuse. I don't know where you are, but in most places there are professional masseuses who actually know what they are doing and can really relieve your muscle pains.
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