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16 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

I think it's down to intelligence. I heard one guy in a Gurdwara telling a bazoorag (who apparently had diabetes) that it doesn't matter how much karah parshaad they ate because it won't affect their blood sugars because it's 'blessed' like that. Now don't get me wrong, I do definitely believe that parshaad is blessed - but to interpret that in this way seems dumb. 

I strongly (more than ever) believe in mysticism myself - but common sense in terms of biology isn't a bad thing either.   

It's a very fine line. There are some things that are quite difficult to grasp and convey in regards to the spiritual sphere. It really does take time to develop a certain mindset before a person can attempt to understand and enact those type of teachings. I have more faith in the unseen than the nonsensical mammonistic norms of today, but equally the mundane nitty gritty of existence cannot be bypassed or ignored. We unfortunately have to function within those norms in order to get anywhere. It's dull, unromantic, but a necessity nonetheless. That side of things is unfortunately completely misrepresented by most processing to have God's ear in this age.

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2 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

It's a very fine line. There are some things that are quite difficult to grasp and convey in regards to the spiritual sphere. It really does take time to develop a certain mindset before a person can attempt to understand and enact those type of teachings. I have more faith in the unseen than the nonsensical mammonistic norms of today, but equally the mundane nitty gritty of existence cannot be bypassed or ignored. We unfortunately have to function within those norms in order to get anywhere. It's dull, unromantic, but a necessity nonetheless. That side of things is unfortunately completely misrepresented by most processing to have God's ear in this age.

I'm not sure if it is a fine line? I don't we've had much precedent for relying on miracles like that.  

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Just now, dallysingh101 said:

I'm not sure if it is a fine line? I don't we've had much precedent for relying on miracles like that.  

I meant understanding the underlying "theory" of why sone are seemingly blessed and saved while others aren't so fortunate and tend to suffer. 

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22 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

I meant understanding the underlying "theory" of why sone are seemingly blessed and saved while others aren't so fortunate and tend to suffer. 

What do you mean by blessed and saved?

In terms of being wealthy and secure (not presuming that's what you meant), and thus 'sorted'. Look at how current circumstances are showing just how tenuous that is.

I've got relatives with infinitely more money than me and they are miserable as eff in comparison. Sometimes I have struggled to get by, but then when I meet some other people who are apparently sorted and see how miserable they are - it don't seem so bad.  

 

Look at the poor NHS doctors who had prestige, money, security and whatnot, and are now right on the front line having to risk their lives. How much of a turnaround has happened there?

For some of us who weren't exactly convinced by the stability of it all, and considered doom merchant cranks for it, it looks like we are sadly right (and I take no pleasure in that).

I went around the corner earlier, there were nutters driving full speed down the road. I've seen people laughing maniacally in their rides. 

Right now, more than ever, I really respect Bhai Jagraj Singh and how he faced down his illness with chardi kala till the end. I think his blessing was to say so much of the right thing about potential conflict/instability that we could face (in line with Sikhi ), and then be taken swiftly back to Waheguru's charan, so he didn't have to witness it. 

 

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8 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

What do you mean by blessed and saved?

In terms of being wealthy and secure (not presuming that's what you meant), and thus 'sorted'. Look at how current circumstances are showing just how tenuous that is.

I've got relatives with infinitely more money than me and they are miserable as eff in comparison. Sometimes I have struggled to get by, but then when I meet some other people who are apparently sorted and see how miserable they are - it don't seem so bad.  

 

Look at the poor NHS doctors who had prestige, money, security and whatnot, and are now right on the front line having to risk their lives. How much of a turnaround has happened there?

For some of us who weren't exactly convinced by the stability of it all, and considered doom merchant cranks for it, it looks like we are sadly right (and I take no pleasure in that).

I went around the corner earlier, there were nutters driving full speed down the road. I've seen people laughing maniacally in their rides. 

Right now, more than ever, I really respect Bhai Jagraj Singh and how he faced down his illness with chardi kala till the end. I think his blessing was to say so much of the right thing about potential conflict/instability that could face (and much about Sikhi ), and then be taken swiftly back to Waheguru's charan, so he didn't have to witness it. 

 

Blessed and saved, as in not dying from a situation that's somewhat avoidable with some legwork on our part. Ultimately, the idea of "grace" is integral to Sikhi, but doing "something" to contribute and not expecting divine intervention to save the day every single time is what I was getting at.  Dunno where you're getting stuff about cash and status from. That's not my idea of being blessed. Maybe I wasn't explaining myself, I'm in the middle of cooking some rice, lol. A bit distracted.

Yes, Bhai Jagraj Singh has been in my thoughts for the past few weeks, too. 

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16 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Blessed and saved, as in not dying from a situation that's somewhat avoidable with some legwork on our part. Ultimately, the idea of "grace" is integral to Sikhi, but doing "something" to contribute and not expecting divine intervention to save the day every single time is what I was getting at.  Dunno where you're getting stuff about cash and status from. That's not my idea of being blessed. Maybe I wasn't explaining myself, I'm in the middle of cooking some rice, lol. A bit distracted.

Yes, Bhai Jagraj Singh has been in my thoughts for the past few weeks, too. 

It was probably me not reading your posts thoroughly. 

 

Two things come to mind with regard to what your saying. First thing is a vaar from Bhai Gurdas (I'm pretty sure?) where he says words to the effect of: If one falls out of a tree and manages to hit the ground unscathed somehow, it doesn't mean it is then okay to start jumping out of trees.

 

The other is a sakhi when one of our Guru sahiban (can't remember which, might have been Guru Angad dev ji or Guru Amar Das ji? ) is walking past a flimsy looking wall with some SIkhs and he tells them all to hurry past it. When they are queried as to why someone of their stature is concerned about being injured, he tells them life should be preserved and not toyed with. 

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Just now, dallysingh101 said:

It was probably me not reading your posts thoroughly. 

Two things come to mind with regard to what your saying. First thing is a vaar from Bhai Gurdas (I'm pretty sure?) where he says words to the effect of: If one falls out of a tree and manages to hit the ground unscathed somehow, it doesn't mean it is then okay to start jumping out of trees.

The other is a sakhi when one of our Guru sahiban (can't remember which, might have been Guru Angad dev ji or Guru Amar Das ji? ) is walking past a flimsy looking wall with some SIkhs and he tells them all to hurry past it. When they are queried as to why someone of their stature is concerned about being injured, he tells them live should be preserved and not toyed with. 

You see, that's spot on. Funny how most of the pseudo-Sikh scholars and brahmgyanis neglect to ever mention these instances in Sikh history that convey a sense of canny, grounded realism on the part of our Guru Sahibs. 

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41 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

You see, that's spot on. Funny how most of the pseudo-Sikh scholars and brahmgyanis neglect to ever mention these instances in Sikh history that convey a sense of canny, grounded realism on the part of our Guru Sahibs. 

There is a strange sense of unrealistic sanctimoniousness (if that's the right word) that's now commonly part of a lot of parchaaraks mindsets. I found Taksali gianis less inclined to this, and more grounded myself - from my limited interactions with them. 

It was quite pervasive in the past (and probably still is in conservative sections of the panth), I mean you'd commonly get overtly 'religious' types telling people physical training wasn't necessary for preparations for war when I was growing up, because, they said, simran and bani will be enough to turn you into a super tough soorma instantly when required. That just shows you where their heads are at. Let alone how this is totally in contradiction to our history and actions of our Guru sahiban. 

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40 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

There is a strange sense of unrealistic sanctimoniousness (if that's the right word) that's now commonly part of a lot parchaaraks mindsets. I found Taksali gianis less inclined to this, and more grounded myself - from my limited interactions with them. 

It was quite pervasive in the past (and probably still is in conservative sections of the panth), I mean you'd commonly get overtly 'religious' types telling people physical training wasn't necessary for preparations for war when I was growing up, because, they said, simran and bani will be enough to turn you into a super tough soorma instantly when required. That just shows you where their heads are at. Let alone how this is totally in contradiction to our history and actions of our Guru sahiban. 

I was lulled into believing those very things and other similar ideological strands, when growing up as a young Sikh, and it nearly ended up destroying me in later years. The attitude and mentality you've highlighted above is weakness masquerading as virtue, and it's suicidal. By all rights I should be a K.S. Brar or a Jagdish Tytler, but thankfully my faith in the Guru has prevented Anakin Skywalker from becoming Darth Vader, lol.

I have no need for a middle man to dilute and confuse the message when the Source is ever-present. For some of us, finding the truth of Sikhi has been a painful, lifelong practise in the crucible of adversity, while for some it's a theoretical exercise in self-righteous judgement originating from a position of relative comfort and privilege. 

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4 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

was lulled into believing those very things and other similar ideological strands, when growing up as a young Sikh, 

What do you think were the vehicles for gaining that mindset? My eldest brother was (is??) the same. I was always a bit suspicious of these things myself, plus I saw how 'useful' the sanctimonious types were with my own eyes in groundlevel conflict situations during the 'troubles' of the 70s/80s/90s, so I had clear evidence they were talking shyte.  

 

4 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

By all rights I should be a K.S. Brar or a Jagdish Tytler, but thankfully my faith in the Guru has prevented Anakin Skywalker from becoming Darth Vader, lol.

Don't even say that, they are lows that are extreme. At worst you could've become a Sunny Hundal perhaps. But look at his brother who grew up in the same household to see how there are factors outside of experiences and upbringing that influence this.

 

4 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

I have no need for a middle man to dilute and confuse the message when the Source is ever-present. For some of us, finding the truth of Sikhi has been a painful, lifelong practise in the crucible of adversity, while for some it's a theoretical exercise in self-righteous judgement originating from a position of relative comfort and privilege. 

Is it dawning on you how much nadar is behind this? I mean some people have learning difficulties and acute lazyitis that look like impenetrable barriers for them to be able to even attempt this. I mean just being able to pick up a language like Gurmukhi and use your brain for some level of intelligent comprehension can't seem to be taken for granted. That isn't to say that I don't have more than my fair share of weaknesses and lapses. I got to say, in the midst of all the crazyness of today, a part of me feels a deep reserve and calm, possibly as a consequence to current events (or maybe Ashwaganda is playing a part too)? I think some of us have more experience (often from childhood adversity) in accepting hukam when it doesn't deliver us all we wish and dream of on a materialistic plane?  That's not me being humble or anything, just hakeekat. 

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4 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

What do you think were the vehicles for gaining that mindset? My eldest brother was (is??) the same. I was always a bit suspicious of these things myself, plus I saw how 'useful' the sanctimonious types were with my own eyes in groundlevel conflict situations during the 'troubles' of the 70s/80s/90s, so I had clear evidence they were talking shyte.  

It was an innate sense more than any type of brainwashing or being pushed into believing various things by anyone, BUT I suppose I was very much drawn to the deeply introspective, pacifist Sant movement as a child and a youth, which was very popular when I was growing up in the 90s, where love, light, goodness, unending meditation minus any actual physical participation in life, etc., were considered to be the total sum to which we must aspire rather than one particular half of the whole. In hindsight, I think that kind of mentality contributed to a demeanour that was overtly trusting and very, very forgiving. I was weak and soft. In essence, the necessary killer instinct every male needs to survive and succeed was dulled and eventually forced out of me by this irrational need to be a perfect, saintly being who was above the crass brusqueness of the material plane, lol. It required the death of a parent and the subsequent turbulence of a few other dark issues to overwhelm me throughout my teens and for much of my 20s for me to realise my entire mentality needed to change. I basically needed to rewire my brain, relearn everything I thought was true, and then begin from scratch. Truly, the most scariest thing in life is to challenge and dismantle what you've been lead to believe is true in every sense, because what your soul is telling you when you lay in bed at night doesn't equate with the world you're seeing through your new eyes which are now beginning to see something else. 

 

4 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Don't even say that, they are lows that are extreme. At worst you could've become a Sunny Hundal perhaps. But look at his brother who grew up in the same household to see how there are factors outside of experiences and upbringing that influence this.

The likes of Sunny Hundal operate from a place where their ideology and their activism stems from a detached, almost uninvolved exercise in protest where there are barely any personal stakes in it for them. It's not really a life and death situation for them, or something that's affected them on a deeply spiritual or existential level; it's more of an intellectual exercise or a pursuit of notoriety that comes from a belief system they've unquestioningly absorbed without challenge. It isn't something they've, to borrow an earlier phrase I used, formed in the crucible of adversity. That kind of belief and outlook doesn't breed the rage and the disenchantment and the anger that comes from betrayal and being discarded on the trash heap. 

 

4 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Is it dawning on you how much nadar is behind this? I mean some people have learning difficulties and acute lazyitis that look like impenetrable barriers for them to be able to even attempt this. I mean just being able to pick up a language like Gurmukhi and use your brain for some level of intelligent comprehension can't seem to be taken for granted. That isn't to say that I don't have more than my fair share of weaknesses and lapses. I got to say, in the midst of all the crazyness of today, a part of me feels a deep reserve and calm, possibly as a consequence to current events (or maybe Ashwaganda is playing a part too)? I think some of us have more experience (often from childhood adversity) in accepting hukam when it doesn't deliver us all we wish and dream of on a materialistic plane?  That's not me being humble or anything, just hakeekat. 

Yes, I'm strangely serene and calm with what's going on. Sometimes a spade is a spade, and there's no further explanation required. Other times it pays to be a little more thoughtful and critical. Being ahead of the curve, if not for the benefit of others, then at least for the sake of realising that voice inside is in good working order, is a positive attribute. Ultimately, if Corona comes knocking, I'm ready. It'll be a life cut short, but I realise Hukam is never wrong no matter how it appears to us.

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I think you guys have to acknowledge that sants/ jathedars like baba avtar singh sursingh vale and other sants from nirmale anr other backgrounds have addressed sangat to be aware of corona and to practice social distancing/ cleaning hands/ clean clothes etc. 

real sants dont ignore the realities of the world. From the realities/ pains their consciousness has been shaped to subdue their minds. Theyre aware of the “physics/metaphysics” sides of things

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Has any1 without a already existing medical condition even died from this thing!?  Every1 that is dyeing is either old or already had some health problems.  1000s of old people die of normal flu in this country every year.

Iv been going out to grab something from the shops every day. 

My mum works in a hospital full of patients with this virus and majority of them are old people in their 70s and 80s. And even some of them are recovering and going home. So far only around 3 or 4 people have died in that hospital. 

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