Gurmat & Vedanta

[Guest]

17 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

I started with the Bhagvad Gita, because I was familiar with the mythology around the events of the Mahabharata, so it seemed like a more accessible way of beginning. I'm currently working through a translation of the Puranas. There's obvious differences between Gurmat and the Vedantic strand of philosophy, the promotion of the caste system being the most glaring one, but I try to understand why such beliefs originated, and then appreciate why Gurmat disavows such teachings. 

I have one friend who's very expert in rigveda , he says Raam never existed and curses Ramayan and his author over the villain-ization of Indra. Indra in rig veda is one of the most prominent gods , but in Puranas he runs around haplessly , often having his heavenly position snatched by the demons , and everytime vishnu rescues him. Whereas in vedas , indra "orders" vishnu. 

My rigvedic friend didn't like it , and he claims modern day hinduism has NOTHING to do with vedas at all. That puranas are incredibly anti-vedic in their tone and that the krishna in mahabharat is essentially what is indra in rig veda. 

Beware of hindu nationalists though who try to make their scriptures sound older than what they really are.  

[Guest]

6 hours ago, H908 said:

Vedant is very hard to access. You would have to be a lifelong scholar and very learned to study it. Gurmat is for everyone written in a language ppl can learn. 

Sanskrit is not that tough of a language . There're several parts of gurbani you would struggle to translate, let alone understand !! 

[MisterrSingh]

3 hours ago, AjeetSingh2019 said:

I have one friend who's very expert in rigveda , he says Raam never existed and curses Ramayan and his author over the villain-ization of Indra. Indra in rig veda is one of the most prominent gods , but in Puranas he runs around haplessly , often having his heavenly position snatched by the demons , and everytime vishnu rescues him. Whereas in vedas , indra "orders" vishnu. 

My rigvedic friend didn't like it , and he claims modern day hinduism has NOTHING to do with vedas at all. That puranas are incredibly anti-vedic in their tone and that the krishna in mahabharat is essentially what is indra in rig veda. 

Beware of hindu nationalists though who try to make their scriptures sound older than what they really are.  

To be fair, I'm not approaching it from the perspective of buying into the personalities and events as if they happened last week as if my life depended on it, lol. I just want to bolster my understanding of certain underlying thought that Sikh scriptures and Gurmat references, which have been expanded upon in greater detail in other sources. Consistency and chronology of these non-Sikh scriptures is, so far, not an issue for me.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

To be fair, I'm not approaching it from the perspective of buying into the personalities and events as if they happened last week as if my life depended on it, lol. I just want to bolster my understanding of certain underlying thought that Sikh scriptures and Gurmat references, which have been expanded upon in greater detail in other sources. Consistency and chronology of these non-Sikh scriptures is, so far, not an issue for me.

no offense to any hindu brother reading this, but hindu chronology never makes sense to me, unless u admit a lot of what you call "history" is infact mythology 

[MisterrSingh]

2 hours ago, AjeetSingh2019 said:

no offense to any hindu brother reading this, but hindu chronology never makes sense to me, unless u admit a lot of what you call "history" is infact mythology 

Who knows. Eventually, everyone's history will become someone else's mythology given enough time.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Who knows. Eventually, everyone's history will become someone else's mythology given enough time.

if it has evidence its history, not mythology

[GurjantGnostic]

12 minutes ago, AjeetSingh2019 said:

if it has evidence its history, not mythology

The victor writes history. 

[Guest Guest Singh]

 

On 3/30/2020 at 3:53 AM, Guest Khalsa Raj said:

Gurmat Vs Advait Vedanta

Thanks for the link ji. I've extracted below a portion from that forum which is directly relevant here, which was posted by Kulbir Singh. Thankful to him as well. 

 

Anyone who has done even mediocre research of Gurmat and if such person reads about Advaita Vedanta, her or she can never think even in dream that Advaita is in accordance with Gurmat. Here are some points to ponder upon: 

1) Advaita ultimately believes that there is only one existence and that is Brahman. This Brahman is not Vaheguru but the self of jeev i.e. Aatma. The self or Aatma or Brahman due to it’s habit of creating maya or playing with it has forgotten that it is Brahman. This is severely in contrast with Gurmat that first of all the Karta Vaheguru never is led astray as is the case with Advaita’s Brahm. Secondly, Vaheguru is not jeev and jeev is not Vaheguru but are two separate entities and the jeev is totally of and dependant on Vaheguru. 

2) Advaita’s philosophy on creation of the world is very strange. 
According to them Brahman the ultimate nirgun God has nothing to do with creation. The world has not been created but is an illusion that the world has been created just like one thinks of rope to be a snake in darkness. They also go forward saying that Atma is Brahman. Then how did Atma that’s Brahman, fall into the illusion of creation? In Gurmat, the creation is a conscious work by Vaheguru. 

3) The status of Vaheguru in Advaita is that Ishwar is assumed to be God only for the sake of it but in reality there is no other existence beyond Atma. There is no merger of Atma and Vaheguru but the realization that Atma is Vaheguru. In Gurmat clearly there is Vaheguru and the jeev and merger in Gurmat means that the jeev’s surthee is one with Vaheguru. 

4) There is no such thing as Prema Bhagti in Advaita because the Advaitin thinks that he or she is Brahman. They just have to realize this through intense mental cultivation. No room for Prema Bhagti because for Prema Bhagti one needs a wordhipper and the deity. In Gurmat, prema bhagti is the key to meeting with Vaheguru. Vaheguru is the deity and Jeev is the worshipper. The difference is very clear. 

[MisterrSingh]

41 minutes ago, AjeetSingh2019 said:

if it has evidence its history, not mythology

And what if the "experts" say the evidence is no longer valid, or they've uncovered new "evidence" that contradicts the earlier facts? Are you in a position to argue to the contrary, and most importantly, who will listen to you?