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Give your reasons of biggest threats or downfall that Sikhs face


genie
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56 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

@proactive This fellow thinks we are the same person.

He reckons he can wind us up. 

I thought he was confusing you with Ravi Singh. Anyway Ravi Singh does get paid for running the charity, I made a mistake and said it was 35K a year but it is actually 33K a year but along with employers national insurance and pension payments, I sure this must come to about 35-38K a year and now he has more paid staff. 

 

From their submission to the charity commission-;

 Mr R.S Sidhu remains CEO and is in full time employment with the charity with a salary of £33,000 per annum.  As the charity develops, greater demands are placed on communication and operational systems. As this work cannot be done effectively or efficiently through voluntary manpower and to ensure compliance with the data protection act and other relevant legislation, the charity requires dedicated staff working to formalised procedures and within established structures. An office manager is employed for 37.5 hours a week together with a 2 full time project coordinators. The role of the project coordinators is to oversee current projects and collect and collate relevant data. An IT expert has also been employed 2.5 days a week to manage and ensure safety of the charities cyber security, databases and internal IT systems. A full time bookkeeper has been employed to assist the charities financial management day to day The Charity and its work will continue to be governed by way of regular trustee meetings.  Work continues to strengthen and further develop the charities operating procedures and ensure effective governance procedures are in place.

About staff costs the same submission states-;

11. Staff costs
The total staff costs and employee benefits for the reporting period are analysed as follows:

2019

Wages and salaries 181,104 

Social security costs 15,743

Employer contributions to pension plans 2,323

Other employee benefits – 

Total 199,170 

So it's not just Ravi Singh taking £33K from the dsawandh, it more like nearly £200,000 a year that the charity gives as wages and benefits to employees. 

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, genie said:

Here is my list of current problems we face as a kaum.

  •  Traveling around giving aid / langar to non-sikhs. This thought was put into Sikh psyche as a strategy to destroy Sikhs from within by the enemy who wanted to move Sikhs away from position of strength to weakness. Guru ka langar never went around the world helping non-sikhs like this. Guru Ka langar was based on giving langar to the local sangat community. However was the non-sikh poor masses who came to the Sikhs and gurdwara's to get langar and get parchar to convert to Sikhi that made non-sikhs want to be a Sikh. This current innovation which has been created and run by idiots and is wasting sangats money giving langar away for free with no benefits for the kaum. The biggest gift a Sikh can give to a non-sikh is parchar because by that parchar the Sikh too will have to reform their character to live by what they preach.
  • Not having well armed sewadaar guards of Gurdwara's. Safety and security of guru's house and his congregation should be paramount yet what do we see today? any afghan ahmed abdali, isis salafi muhammad musin, mughal aurangzeb can walk in and kill without any hindrance like we seen recently. What is the fall out? Sikhs will stop coming to gurdwara's and thus gurdwara commitee's lose income and gurdwara shuts down eventually. The non-muslim hating conquest loving isis type jihadi mullah nutjob wins as sikhi is seen as weak and finished eventually because gurdwara's are no longer safe spaces for people wanting to worship and congregate.
  •  Sikhs of sarbat da bhulla mindset. Well meaning humanitarian liberal Sikhs but very gullible very politically and religiously naive not understand the full context of meaning of sarabat da bhalla and when to apply it. perhaps most of them have a sort of stockholm sydromme imprisoned by cultures and ideologies that are against Sikh interests and prevent their own community to survive.
  • Fake Sikh puppet leaders. They are only in it for their own power, fame/popularity contest or financial gain (eg recent akal takht jathedhars, sgpc leaders, DT harnaam singh, Badal dal, congressi captain amrinder singh, etc). We need to support leaders who openly fight for the interests of Sikhs without being shy about it.
  • Not having our own sovereign state nation. To conduct our own economic, military, religious and political affairs is the very reason we have so many problems. But its not necessary for the community to survive and thrive if other problems are dealt with.
  • Inter-faith marriages and lack of promotion of inter-caste or inter-race Sikh marriages. Sikhs should activity promote inter-caste marriages within punjabis at the very least and help promote those non-sikhs to convert to Sikhi to marry someone within the faith.

 

 Traveling around giving aid / langar to non-sikhs

If non-Sikhs are going around serving food to homeless and vulnerable Sikhs, there are going to be Sikhs that are going to be compelled to do the same.

 

Not having well armed sewadaar guards of Gurdwara's.

May prove problematic as in theory, Gurdwaras are supposed to be open for all. That will be the argument against what you are proposing.

 

Sikhs of sarbat da bhulla mindset.

There needs to be a better more clear understanding as to what this entails.

 

Not having our own sovereign state nation. To conduct our own economic, military, religious and political affairs

This perhaps is the most important point.

 

Inter-faith marriages and lack of promotion of inter-caste or inter-race Sikh marriages

Will meet great resistance from certain quarters but this is changing. If you are having arranged marriage then what you are proposing won't happen. If you marry out out of your own choice there is more likelihood.

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32 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Not having well armed sewadaar guards of Gurdwara's.

May prove problematic as in theory, Gurdwaras are supposed to be open for all. That will be the argument against what you are proposing.

I don't think genie is proposing some sort of overt restrictions on people entering, more like heightened awareness/security around entry points and armed guards (albeit with concealed weapons) ready to respond to sudden attacks in areas where this is a distinct possibility.  

This could be the difference between 5 deaths and 25 deaths. 

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Atheist punjabis and foreign agents both pose risk to the Paanth. 

Fear mongers and xenophobes who wish to distance and isolate the Paanth from it's own courageous roots. 

Corrupt it's image and isolate it, make it appear self interested and give its enemies something it never had before, proof that Sikhs are like everyone else, not a cut above or a cut closer. 

Gurbani tells you how to be a swan, some people here are trying to model themselves after crows and cranes. And trying to model Sikhia after their own atheist views, pointing to the corrupt success of others rather than Bani to guide their thinking. 

If people here wish to better help Sikhs and Sikhia let us phrase it in that tense. Simply doing Nindia of existing Sevadars is not gurmat and does not serve the Paanths image. 

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atheist and liberal punjabis/sikhs are the biggest threat because they dnt follow a % of sikhi yet they call themselves sikhs and are among us,  all the bad rep sikhs have is because of liberal/atheist punjabis.  its these same people that alter sikhi to suit their views/lifestyle   its these same people that alter our traditions and push their liberal tatti ways of living into our community   its the same people that go out every weekend and get drunk while wearing kareh and still call themselves sikhs    its these same sl@gs that dress like they work in a brothel and upload photos on social media with "kaur" on their name.  everything is because of them. 

liberal atheist punjabis are the worst and ruining everything 

theres even pagh wearing atheists believe it or not!  i worked with this pagh wearing guy from kenya who was an atheist   and believed science is his religion    and he told me how he likes the pretty "sikhni" that works in mcdonalds across the street and is gnna try talking to her.  and if he did trying talk to her im sure she was stupid enough to fall for it.  can u believe that there are pagh and kara wearing atheists among us! and we would walk past them and greet them thinking they are one of us. 

punjabi weddings look like brothels.  

som1 sent me a clip of a punjabi wedding with a man and woman dancing in the middle and evry1 around them clapping the man then trod on the womans saree and the part of the saree that covers the belly and chest got trapped under his shoe and her massive belly flab got exposed and she started screaming.

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when we were in school the most liberal punjabi in our yr was a punjabi girl from a very liberal family, by liberal i mean she used to have glassy with her mum and half her family was married to muslims, she told me that half her family uncles/aunts cousins etc are married to muslims so her parents said she can marry whoever she wants to    thats how liberal they were. this same girl in the school toilets stuck a toilet brush up her private parts and filmed it and sent it to evry1 

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I think it's a little more complex than liberal Sikhs letting the side down, but I do sympathise with the general gist of the argument. Don't forget, all it takes is darshan of someone or another to turn someone like that into a believer, so it's not as if they're total losses. Some of it's down to karams, too. Like I said, this entire issue is attributable to physical and social phenomena as well as spiritual matters. Our duty is to get a grasp of matters in our direct control. 

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1. One of the issues Sikhs face today is turning intellectual questions into ideological questions. 

The debates around dasam granth, meat, raag mala are a century old at least. Sant Gurbachan singh, bhai randheer singh all wrote about the issue or decided it was not solvable in the 1900s.

Recently we had the calendar debate. It was something people should have argued about back and forth, thought about, deliberated etc. Instead it turns into an us vs them thing. And ppl are excommunicated and split into different camps over it. Its not even a theological issue, its worldly. About how accurate certain calendars are.

Same thing with dasam granth. In the beginning people had legit questions. But ppl were excommunicated and panth split over it. Before the right side came up with answers and conferences. But it was too late. It had become too polarizing. 

2. People either being too realist or too idealist. There should be a balance. The realist want to cancel langar and help to other communities because they think we should help sikhs first. While a valid arguement, they should realize the benefit of these charity langars. It unites most sikhs. From the most liberal, athiest sikh to the most traditional. All will say it is the greatness of sikhi. All will rise up to take credit, that yup thats who we sikhs are,.when its on the news, praised by non sikhs. It gives positive branding and awareness. Which we sikhs in the USA know the importance of post-911. And so will the UK ppl when the racist Right becomes strong. To be not lumped in with terrorists or muslims, I would pay any price. And khalsa aid is a small price to pay. 

And the idealist that believe muslims are no danger. That all religions are equal. That banning inter faith marriages is sacrilegious. Are also idiots. But can be fixed. Can be shown the light. Just show  them how ugly the world is. Show them the muslims promoting love jihad, grooming etc. They will change. But the realist, narrowminded pessimist will bring down the panth to their low level and permeate it with misery. Thats why BoS bhai jagraj singh was a sucess. He brought hope that the panth can change be better, live up to its ideals with practical ideas.

Also realist parents will not let their kids keep hair or get too religious as they think it will hinder their kids in life. 

The idealist parents will not teach their kids about harsh realities so they are gullible. Will trust easily. And be losers with 3 ft dumalleh. Will vote for referendum 2020 when it will cause economic collapse, or persecution of sikhs. They dont care abt peoples livelihood or lives only the 'sikhi' matters. These get most ppl disillusioned and turn their back on sikhi.

3. We dont have enough freedom of religion. We are for it for people of other faiths but not our own. Let people follow sikhi the way they want. Let them question it and leave it. Let them dabble. Just have some hard and fast rules they cant cross. No deh dhaari guru, no disrespect of the Gurus or SGGS. 

Let their be missonaries and nihangs and taksalis and akjs. The diversity is important. But dont try to convince the whole panth that only ur way is right. That everyone should eat chatka meat and being vegetarian is wrong. Or chatka is wrong. 

It should be,.that is how they do things. This is how we do it. But we still brothers.

4. We need to stop thinking and preaching that taking amrit is the goal. There are more sikhs who will never take amrit. We need to teach them how to still be sikh. Let have minimum rehit that every sikh, non-amridhari included, must follow. This will decrease the liberal sikhs who are clueless. And has the potential to create a strong sikh identiy like that of muslims

Every sikh must not belive in anyone other than SGGS. Must do japji sahib or 5 mool mantar daily. Must teach their kids sikh history and panjabi ie panjabi classes or at home. Try to not defame sikhi and try to be honest, hardworking, etc. Dont give up but at least decrease fraud and other sins. 

Absolutely give up drugs. And alcohol. U cant call urself sikh if u drink. Say i will be sikh someday when i quit. (We need to decrease alcoholism and get rid of the thinking that sikhs and alcohol go together. So we need to be harsh abt it. So not passed on to next gen)

And that sikhi is not just about giving up things. Sikhi can help you lead a more successful life without diseases and troubles. If u do this: (sukhmani sahib daily and not sure what else. Seva? Sikh scholars can figure this out)

5. The overlap between different culture and sikhs. Make it clear cut what is sikhi and what is not. If we do this, one day we will be able to.get afghan sikhs to give up cousin marrying practices. 

If we first get rid of all the panjabi baggage: drinking, jatt stuff ( not caste stuff. Thats not really relevant. Lets be honest. No one hates shudras or thinks tarkhaan should only do woodwork. The only caste stuff that is left is being proud of being jatt) bhangra, honor killings, female infanticide, dowry,  treating womens side of family.as inferior etc.

People can be panjabi and sikh. so  can do bhangra as a sikh. Like someone learning karate or step dancing or zumba. But everyone should be clear its a nonsikh thing. 

6. Thinking everything puratan is good. And should be emulated. Research should be done about the authenticity of things like sooraj parkash. More research into Dasam granth. Resolve the controversies with resesrch. Not just thats how it was always done. But without creating more controversies.

7. Hating people who are not to your standard. Like kar sewa babe. They dont have knowledge about how to preserve antique things. Instead of hating. Do a course on preservation and join them. They have made old small buiding accessible for massive sikh sangats. And the sarai are very comfortable and useful for qurantine like now. They did their best.

Politicians will always be corrupt instead of voting in ur guy/team, learn to use them to do the important work.  Yeah dhumma is terrible. But he is keeping taksal going. So that it still exists for when another revolution is needed. So when another Sant comes. Real world is ugly, willnever be perfect. Learn how to flow with it. 

 

 

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