Understanding Jap Ji Sahib better

[TigerForce1]

5 hours ago, puzzled said:

I'v seen it translated as both     i use sundar gutka app and it translates it as clean,  watched bhai jagraj singhs katha on 1st pauri and he translates it as clean/cleansing as well      but then some websites online translate it as thinking 

That’s interesting to know.  I’ve always only ever seen it as ‘Thinking’.  I’m surprised that there are two versions of the translation out there.  But then again what else would you expect from the SGPC with such important matters. 

[dallysingh101]

43 minutes ago, TigerForce1 said:

That’s interesting to know.  I’ve always only ever seen it as ‘Thinking’.  I’m surprised that there are two versions of the translation out there.  But then again what else would you expect from the SGPC with such important matters. 

The word soch has been used by Baba Nanak as clean in other places too if I recall rightly.

I used to think it was 'think' to, but I think it is 'clean' now. 

[Ranjeet01]

Don't languages change over time. 

We are talking about 500 years here. What if certain words meant one thing during that time and now means something else. 

If you read Shakespeare and compare the English in the 1500s, it sounds nothing like it does now. There are words we were commonplace in that we no longer use and are incomprehensible. 

[TigerForce1]

59 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

The word soch has been used by Baba Nanak as clean in other places too if I recall rightly.

I used to think it was 'think' to, but I think it is 'clean' now. 

This makes sense! I’d imagine quite a few words used in Gurmukhi are pronounced and written differently to now such as ‘Sat’ which is ‘truth’.  ‘Sat’ is no longer used in modern day spoken or written communication.

[dallysingh101]

18 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Don't languages change over time. 

We are talking about 500 years here. What if certain words meant one thing during that time and now means something else. 

If you read Shakespeare and compare the English in the 1500s, it sounds nothing like it does now. There are words we were commonplace in that we no longer use and are incomprehensible. 

Another great thing about bani is that we can cross reference lots of words (shabads) with their use in other shabads. Even Ernest Trumpf who had so much bad things to say about SIkhs and Guru Maharaj ji, had to concede that it was a 'linguistic treasure trove'.  

 

18 hours ago, TigerForce1 said:

This makes sense! I’d imagine quite a few words used in Gurmukhi are pronounced and written differently to now such as ‘Sat’ which is ‘truth’.  ‘Sat’ is no longer used in modern day spoken or written communication.

I think it was Professor Sahib Singh who explained how there are different ways that are futile as sole methods of achieving that state of truth (sat) by breaking through maya that Sikhs aspire to: 

ਸੋਚੈ ਸੋਚਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਸੋਚੀ ਲਖ ਵਾਰ॥ (ritual cleanliness)

ਚੁਪੈ ਚੁਪ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਲਾਇ ਰਹਾ ਲਿਵ ਤਾਰ॥ (mind stilling, which might be the focus of other approaches to meditation) 

ਭੁਖਿਆ ਭੁਖ ਨ ਉਤਰੀ ਜੇ ਬੰਨਾ ਪੁਰੀਆ ਭਾਰ॥ (satiating oneself with material goods, sustenance)  

ਸਹਸ ਸਿਆਣਪਾ ਲਖ ਹੋਹਿ ਤ ਇਕ ਨ ਚਲੈ ਨਾਲਿ (this one is important because it covers thinking/intellectualism - if I recall rightly the professor argued that soch in the first pangti isn't 'thinking', because that is covered here). 

 

It might stem from the Sanskrit ਸੰ शौचै ः ਸ਼ੌਚ (ਸੁਚ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰਤਾ)

[Redoptics]

1 hour ago, dallysingh101 said:

Another great thing about bani is that we can cross reference lots of words (shabads) with their use in other shabads. Even Ernest Trumpf who had so much bad things to say about SIkhs and Guru Maharaj ji, had to concede that it was a 'linguistic treasure trove'.  

 

I think it was Professor Sahib Singh who explained how there are different ways that are futile as sole methods of achieving that state of truth (sat) by breaking through maya that Sikhs aspire to: 

ਸੋਚੈ ਸੋਚਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਸੋਚੀ ਲਖ ਵਾਰ॥ (ritual cleanliness)

ਚੁਪੈ ਚੁਪ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਲਾਇ ਰਹਾ ਲਿਵ ਤਾਰ॥ (mind stilling, which might be the focus of other approaches to meditation) 

ਭੁਖਿਆ ਭੁਖ ਨ ਉਤਰੀ ਜੇ ਬੰਨਾ ਪੁਰੀਆ ਭਾਰ॥ (satiating oneself with material goods, sustenance)  

ਸਹਸ ਸਿਆਣਪਾ ਲਖ ਹੋਹਿ ਤ ਇਕ ਨ ਚਲੈ ਨਾਲਿ (this one is important because it covers thinking/intellectualism - if I recall rightly the professor argued that soch in the first pangti isn't 'thinking', because that is covered here). 

 

It might stem from the Sanskrit ਸੰ शौचै ः ਸ਼ੌਚ (ਸੁਚ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰਤਾ)

We also need to make sure we have an understanding of what the words meant in Guru Ji's time and not use updated versions otherwise, we lose the meaning. 

[MokhamSingh]

[genie]

On 4/23/2020 at 7:30 AM, Premi5 said:

Those of you who do Jap Ji paath daily, how did you learn all the meaning of it?

I have read translations, and audio katha, but find it very difficult to remember all the meanings because it is not simple punjabi

Because there are parts I cannot translate in my mind, therefore I find it difficult to concentrate to understand the meaning

Can anyone help?

The version that makes sense to me is the one I use the punjabi to english translation which was translated by harbans singh doabia.

 

[Singh1989]

Giani Takhur Singh ji simple katha of Japji Sahib on youtube. 

[Jonny101]

The first time Soch was translated as Suchamta was by Kavi Santokh Singh Ji in Garb Ganjini. But before him all translated Soch to mean ਸੋਚਣਾ, ਵੀਚਾਰਣਾ। The oldest translation of Japji Sahib known as Sri Japji Parmarth which is said to date back to the times of the early Guru Sahibaan also translates Soch to mean ਸੋਚਣਾ ਵੀਚਾਰਣਾ।

You can read and download a copy of this old steek on pdl in the following link

http://www.panjabdigilib.org/webuser/searches/displayPage.jsp?ID=5649&page=1&CategoryID=1&Searched=