Is there a difference between damdami taksals taksali gutka and other gutkas?

[akaaliKhalsa1699]

Is there any difference between a taksali gutka and any other ones like budha dal gutkas? I used to use mysikhi app to do nitnem and read gurbani, but recently i downloaded the damdami taksal sunder gutka app. 

[Koi]

There ideally shouldn't be, but here's a few I've seen:

In JapJi Sahib, the tuk of the first pauri that begins "chupai chup...", the papa in "chup" has a sihaari in the Taksaal gutkaa (which is correct), the Budhaa Dal (and others) one does not.

Budhaa Dal Chaupai and Rehraas is longer.

The rakhiyaa de shabad are longer too in the Budhaa Dal gutka.

The Budhaa Dal (and other Gutkas) have in general way more spelling mistakes than the Taksaal one.

In terms of other Gutkas, sometimes the mangals of the Baanis are different, especially in sawaiyaa and chaupai Sahib.

The Budhaa Dal gutka contains way more baani than any others.

I've even seen one Gutkaa app that puts the mangal before the sirlekh i.e. rather than "Ramkali Mahalaa 3 Anand Ik Oankaar Satgurprasaad", it says "Ik Oankaar Satgurprasaad Ramkali Mahalaa 3 Anand", which is a clear beadbi. Please avoid such apps and report where you can.

That's all I can think of at the moment...

[1Anonymous1]

On 5/8/2020 at 8:54 AM, Koi said:

 

I've even seen one Gutkaa app that puts the mangal before the sirlekh i.e. rather than "Ramkali Mahalaa 3 Anand Ik Oankaar Satgurprasaad", it says "Ik Oankaar Satgurprasaad Ramkali Mahalaa 3 Anand", which is a clear beadbi. Please avoid such apps and report where you can.

That's all I can think of at the moment...

Actually Bhai sahib in puratan birs manglacharan always came first: 

1749 and 1801 saroop show mangal first then anand sahib. If you look at other puratan saroops for other banis, manglacharan always came first ji.

[Singh1989]

Yes Taksali Rehraas starts off with "Har jug jug bhagt upaaia" whereas Hazoori's starts off with another shabd from Asa d waar, plus has many more tukhts from Dasam Granth that Taksali doesn't contain. Then another Rehraas starts "Dukh daru sukh rog bhia" and doesn't have Chartirpakyon's final tukht nor any other Dasam Granth's bania (shortest Rehraas Sahib). 

[RajKaregaKhalsa1]

53 minutes ago, Singh1989 said:

Yes Taksali Rehraas starts off with "Har jug jug bhagt upaaia" whereas Hazoori's starts off with another shabd from Asa d waar, plus has many more tukhts from Dasam Granth that Taksali doesn't contain. Then another Rehraas starts "Dukh daru sukh rog bhia" and doesn't have Chartirpakyon's final tukht nor any other Dasam Granth's bania (shortest Rehraas Sahib). 

Look, Baani can be added on, they do it out of love and because it gives them ras.

 

On 5/8/2020 at 8:54 AM, Koi said:

The rakhiyaa de shabad are longer

There's only 2 extra,  6 lines man. It doesn't take that long to read and I believe it was added because the Shabads fit the theme of Rakhya. And anyways they're not forcing anyone to read it. Really those 2 shabads are a Benti to Guru Maharaj to protect us. Guru Sahibaan will see that devotion.

[Koi]

11 hours ago, Singh1989 said:

Yes Taksali Rehraas starts off with "Har jug jug bhagt upaaia" whereas Hazoori's starts off with another shabd from Asa d waar, plus has many more tukhts from Dasam Granth that Taksali doesn't contain. Then another Rehraas starts "Dukh daru sukh rog bhia" and doesn't have Chartirpakyon's final tukht nor any other Dasam Granth's bania (shortest Rehraas Sahib). 

Rehraas does technically start from "Dukh Daaroo Sukh..", but you always read "Har Jug Jug..." because it is read as part of "Sodar Di Chonki" in the evening, right before Rehraas. Kind of like in the same way Rakhiya De Shabad are read before Kirtan Sohila.

[Koi]

14 hours ago, 1Anonymous1 said:

Actually Bhai sahib in puratan birs manglacharan always came first: 

1749 and 1801 saroop show mangal first then anand sahib. If you look at other puratan saroops for other banis, manglacharan always came first ji.

Brother, it's not difficult to compile a list of Birs where the Mangal comes after the Sirlekh either, and I'm sure you seen pictures of these. However, if we examine majority of the saroops at the various Takhts, written by the prominent Sikhs of the time (Baba Deep Singh, Bhai Mani Singh etc.), the Kartarpuri Bir, and other hand written Gutke and Pothis, there is overwhelming evidence that the Mangal does not always come before the Sirlekh. Hence why the current saroop is written in this way.

That being said, I don't wish to divert this thread. If you want to discuss this further, I'm happy for another thread to be open for that.

[FreshMind13]

On 5/10/2020 at 3:15 AM, Koi said:

Brother, it's not difficult to compile a list of Birs where the Mangal comes after the Sirlekh either, and I'm sure you seen pictures of these. However, if we examine majority of the saroops at the various Takhts, written by the prominent Sikhs of the time (Baba Deep Singh, Bhai Mani Singh etc.), the Kartarpuri Bir, and other hand written Gutke and Pothis, there is overwhelming evidence that the Mangal does not always come before the Sirlekh. Hence why the current saroop is written in this way.

That being said, I don't wish to divert this thread. If you want to discuss this further, I'm happy for another thread to be open for that.

There was vidhi of reading mangal.

Likhari would write mangal aligned to the right, and then the sirlekh would be left aligned and a few centimeters lower. To a person who blindly reads from left to right, they would not be aware of this, hence why it is claimed those birhs have mangal after sirlekh. In reality, learned paathis would read them first.

Even in Sanskrit tradition, the manglacharan to avtaar is always written and read first.

The modern printing presses screwed with this maryada and started centering the mangals and sirlekhs, which complicated the issue further.

 

[Koi]

On 5/22/2020 at 11:31 PM, FreshMind13 said:

There was vidhi of reading mangal.

Likhari would write mangal aligned to the right, and then the sirlekh would be left aligned and a few centimeters lower. To a person who blindly reads from left to right, they would not be aware of this, hence why it is claimed those birhs have mangal after sirlekh. In reality, learned paathis would read them first.

Even in Sanskrit tradition, the manglacharan to avtaar is always written and read first.

The modern printing presses screwed with this maryada and started centering the mangals and sirlekhs, which complicated the issue further.

 

Whilst you do make a good point, please remember, Gurbani is "sutantar", free from and kind of vidhi or viyaakaran. That's why you'll find astpadis in the Gurbani that have more (or less) than 8 tuks. And that's why you'll find Gurbani not bound by viyaakaran. 

And if you wish to cite "learned paathis", all traditional sampardas read the Gurbani the way it's written, and not simply just read the Mangal first as a default.

Rest Guru Sahib Ji knows

[FreshMind13]

2 hours ago, Koi said:

Whilst you do make a good point, please remember, Gurbani is "sutantar", free from and kind of vidhi or viyaakaran. That's why you'll find astpadis in the Gurbani that have more (or less) than 8 tuks. And that's why you'll find Gurbani not bound by viyaakaran.

Yes, Gurbani is ਸੁਤੰਤਰ from any wordly grammer or poetry system. Ones who say that Gurbani is beyond Viyakaran, make a purely emotional statement without any backup. Everything that Waheguru does is perfect and under divine rules made by Waheguru. Similarly, ਧੁਰ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ too is constraint by not some worldly grammar rules but by the unique and divine grammatical rules.

You are free to have your opinion, Guru Sahib knows best.

For other readers, I'll be sharing a short article by Jathedar Joginder Singh Vedanti on Vyaakaran: