So what if you're protecting us and shedding your young blood for us, you're just one skidmark created for protection of our existence

[Akalifauj]

40 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Change the record, bro. Trying to get to the bottom of some of these pressing issues that face us as a quom is slander and blasphemy to you. I ask these questions as one of you, not as a hostile force. You will have no response when outsiders ask these same questions, and believe me they will one day. Don't you think we should spend this time fortifying ourselves in preparation for the difficult times ahead instead of hoping for the best? 

As for your general tactic of resorting to labelling a person as a slanderer when you have zero substance to contribute, it's getting old hat. Think of something on which to base your attacks. Emotional blackmail works on only the weak.

The problem isn't with Gurbani and Sikhi but those who try to interpret what Gurbani is saying and fail at it, yet want classify themselves as very intelligent people. To slander Gursikhs who do nothing but paath all day is one example of grossly misinterpreting Gurbani. Hence it's very much a part of this discussion which would not exist if devotion was put in to understanding Gurbani and less time into self loathing. With devotion the slanders mind is not lost in blurring the lines between Sikhi and Hinduism and show casing this publicly as some kind of brilliant idea. Had this arrogant statement been presented by an ignorant person who doesn't proud himself of being a highly skilled individual with the imagination to out do others, there would have been a meaningful exchange.

[Jai Tegang!]

6 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

I'll repeat what I said a while ago: we'd have been better served at the inception of Sikhi if all links to Hinduism were disavowed much like how Islam drew a line underneath its links to Judaism and Christianity. But, if that was never meant to be the divine plan by the founders, considering how our iconographic lexicon is inextricably Hindu-based, what exactly was the point of it all? We can swear until we're blue in the face that we reject the Hindu pantheon, but for an apparently distinct entity, we sure seem to refer to it and draw our underlying philosophical basis from its existence on an inconveniently intimate basis. To be truly separate from Hinduism we would have to erase ALL Vedantic influences, but then what remains of the religion aside from surface practices?

For me, it all comes to back to geography. If only we had some physical breathing space from the overwhelming non-Sikh influences that bleed into our reality, we might have been able to forge ahead with a clear vision. Now, we're just surrounded on all sides.

This confusion of where our Sikhi really stands in the religious landscape is what is resulting in our current internal turmoils (starting from the last 100+ years). What we have is a more authentic connection to our founders' vision, unlike the other religions who had the "luxury" to reinterpret and dumb-down their message. Either the religion is so simple and easy like xianty, or playing on man's base desires like islam. While our indic elder brother is so convoluted that they have to stick to a geographic definition just to get a semblance of unity. 

It's a challenge we will need to confront eventually. Both sides from our community will need to resist the temptation of rabid attacking each other and get to a more nuanced understanding. Perhaps this will lead to a greater understanding and appreciation of our Guru sahibaan's vision for humanity. After all we are named students  and shouldn't shy away from studying. 

[MisterrSingh]

27 minutes ago, Jai Tegang! said:

This confusion of where our Sikhi really stands in the religious landscape is what is resulting in our current internal turmoils (starting from the last 100+ years). What we have is a more authentic connection to our founders' vision, unlike the other religions who had the "luxury" to reinterpret and dumb-down their message. Either the religion is so simple and easy like xianty, or playing on man's base desires like islam. While our indic elder brother is so convoluted that they have to stick to a geographic definition just to get a semblance of unity. 

It's a challenge we will need to confront eventually. Both sides from our community will need to resist the temptation of rabid attacking each other and get to a more nuanced understanding. Perhaps this will lead to a greater understanding and appreciation of our Guru sahibaan's vision for humanity. After all we are named students  and shouldn't shy away from studying. 

Another significant problem that must be confronted eventually is how the corrosiveness of Punjabiyat politicking bears upon Sikhi. It's dirty and underhand (as is politics itself), but Sikhi and Sikhs are almost used as a political ball between various parties and factions. This does untold damage. 

[jkvlondon]

9 hours ago, ChardikalaUK said:

Yes it's annoying.

However whether we like it or not, there is a link between Sikhi and Hinduism in India, a lot of Punjabi Hindus did make their eldest son a Sikh, how do you feel about that? Would you have preferred if they never did that?

why are you perpuating a myth , if a hindu family loved sikhi whole families moved into sikhi not just the eldest so he could take advantadge of the British premium for sikhs in their employ

[TigerForce1]

9 hours ago, ChardikalaUK said:

However whether we like it or not, there is a link between Sikhi and Hinduism in India, a lot of Punjabi Hindus did make their eldest son a Sikh, how do you feel about that?

So if Hindus living in India in the 21st century decide to make their eldest son follow a modern faith like ‘Scientology’, would this link the two faiths?  How stupid does this statement sound when you insert Scientology and yet by inserting ‘Sikhi’ you expect people to take this seriously.  Religion does not have ‘DNA’ like ethnicity, so this statement sounds even more dumb when somebody throws it at you.

[TigerForce1]

6 hours ago, AjeetSingh2019 said:

1) fool sikhs in thinking "wow , nishan sahib on army vehicle" ,

and

2) make chinese think its the sikhs who're enemies , so that chinese never support sikhs  

1. Sikhs will never fall for these false images.  The Sikhs who enrol into the India Army do so for a job only, being patriotic has nothing to do with it.  
 

2. The Chinese are far too clued up about India and it’s pathetic attempts to show Sikhs as patriots and the enemy.  I mean come on does anybody even know the name of the Chinese Intelligence Agency? This shows the Chinese are not to be fooled by Indian attempts or are they to reveal there cards to the world.  They know everything about what’s going on and far more sophisticated than the Indians.

Even the death toll of the latest hand to hand skirmish shows that out of the 20 Army personnel killed, 4 were Sikhs.  That’s 4 from a pool of just 2% Sikhs of India’s population.  That to a Sikh shows that those who were killed are still just cannon fodder and to the Chinese this shows Sikhs have no choice where they are positioned in the Indian Army.  The real enemy is India whether that be to the Sikhs or China.  If a guy like me can figure this out I’m sure the Chinese state are better informed by Pakistan and Intelligence groups about the situation in India.

[puzzled]

12 minutes ago, TigerForce1 said:

1. Sikhs will never fall for these false images.  The Sikhs who enrol into the India Army do so for a job only, being patriotic has nothing to do with it.  
 

2. The Chinese are far too clued up about India and it’s pathetic attempts to show Sikhs as patriots and the enemy.  I mean come on does anybody even know the name of the Chinese Intelligence Agency? This shows the Chinese are not to be fooled by Indian attempts or are they to reveal there cards to the world.  They know everything about what’s going on and far more sophisticated than the Indians.

Even the death toll of the latest hand to hand skirmish shows that out of the 20 Army personnel killed, 4 were Sikhs.  That’s 4 from a pool of just 2% Sikhs of India’s population.  That to a Sikh shows that those who were killed are still just cannon fodder and to the Chinese this shows Sikhs have no choice where they are positioned in the Indian Army.  The real enemy is India whether that be to the Sikhs or China.  If a guy like me can figure this out I’m sure the Chinese state are better informed by Pakistan and Intelligence groups about the situation in India.

thats interesting point, I'm sure China receives a lot of information from Pakistan about the different communities in India and their political/social situations, especially Punjab because of its geographical location.  

[TigerForce1]

3 minutes ago, puzzled said:

thats interesting point, I'm sure China receives a lot of information from Pakistan about the different communities in India and their political/social situations, especially Punjab because of its geographical location.  

The Chinese know everything about what’s going in India at present and what’s happened in the past.  I remember recently hearing about India trying to negotiate with China about releasing land that the Chinese occupied in the last war with India.  The Chinese said the land that is contested has never belonged to India and belonged to Sarkar-e-Khalsa prior to the 1947 borders. They told them we will negotiate with the rightful owners of the land when they are in a position to do so! 

[ChardikalaUK]

3 hours ago, TigerForce1 said:

So if Hindus living in India in the 21st century decide to make their eldest son follow a modern faith like ‘Scientology’, would this link the two faiths?  How stupid does this statement sound when you insert Scientology and yet by inserting ‘Sikhi’ you expect people to take this seriously.  Religion does not have ‘DNA’ like ethnicity, so this statement sounds even more dumb when somebody throws it at you.

Ok fair point, but you have exaggerated too much.

[jkvlondon]

it is not the first time these scummy sorts have not just drank our blood but they have cheated their families and the sikh families who donated to them

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/comment/how-kairon-made-punjabis-offer-gold-blood-in-1962-100706?fbclid=IwAR2xCjGuH887GbS6qYUc-SxfKa_XOH6NLoebSwYCqpDNOz_PHBjIBzdom8Y

they spilt our blood during the independence struggle like it was water , then again during partitiion , they murdered hundreds of praying sikhs at Harmandir Sahib (Golden temple in) 1955 because we dared to ask for our state's right to recognise our mother tongue . Then in 1962 they expected us to pour our blood , youth andfuture iat their feet; strip jewllery from our womenfolk's necks and ears to pay for our war veterans and their bereved families and they still robbed that away from our people have they no shame expecting our continued sacrifices when they have made clear on every turn that they are scum out to destroy us ?