Predatory Christianity destroying Punjab and Sikhi

[proudkaur21]

5 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

One man out of a tiny minority within a slightly bigger minority, lol. Time to accept that perhaps it's over from a collective perspective, and consider individual efforts for personal spiritual advancement? I continue repeating myself but India-based Sikhs are a lost cause. They're gone. They have two modes: either total Punjabiyat crassness and hedonism, or adherence to a surface level Sikhi that hasn't penetrated their inner selves. That's it. Those who buck these trends don't have enough numbers to make a difference.

Indian born sikhs are too damn materialistic and only think about money. They dont even care about their daughters marrying non sikhs. There was a documentary on youtube showing a sikh women married to a hindu and how she could not raise her child to be like a khalsa and lo and behold it had so many dislikes from hindus saying how this is anti hindu blah blah sikhs and hindus are same. Problem with indian born sikhs is they are too brainwashed into believing that they and hindus are the same so they dont see anything wrong in following anti sikh rituals or ending sikhi in their bloodline through marrying out. Fools i would say. Imagine having the gift of being born into sikhi and then throwing it away. I hate how hindus have to insert themselves into everything related to sikhs. We cant even make documentaries about our religion to teach our youth without these people always trying to tell us what is wrong and right.

[dallysingh101]

22 hours ago, proudkaur21 said:

How can discrimination by some mere mortal human make you stop believing in your god.These people dont know anything about sikhi and thats why they will go wherever they get benefits.

Please, don't underestimate the impact of discrimination. Systemic discrimination leads to revolts and revolutions. We descend from people who've done this ourselves. But many of our people have become the very thing we fought against now. 

Any people with any sense of dignity would not quietly take discrimination. They might quietly tolerate it when not in a position to directly challenge it, but they will be building up movements to resist. 

Never excuse it or try and rationalise it away, or you'll just be compounding the problem. I'm genuinely shocked at how many juts seem perplexed at why certain castes, who they deem beneath them,  and who they have a systemic relationship of oppression with, leave the panth. Certain people must be really deranged to actually think that these people should put up with it for the sake of their 'religion'. The whole Sikhi thing was largely to combat this very Manusmitri bahmunhistic thinking. What shocks me the most though, is how even educated, seemingly intelligent juts raised in diasporas, outside of the dark confines of the pend, still think this way.  

[GurjantGnostic]

1 hour ago, dallysingh101 said:

It's because they are sociopaths and are unable to think about anything but themselves. Organisations like that make sure they keep out people who are not like them (like the police in the UK), so I don't even think western born Sikhs should even bother. Even if SGPC did hire someone from out of the usual spectrum, it would just be tokenism to placate people, and they'd probably make sure the new guy doesn't rock the boat too much.   

We have to start parallel ground level movements. I think this has already started. How far we can go, time will tell. I think we need to focus on regional strength where we have a few numbers. But it is hard to do, because people don't want to confront ugly truths about the community. As you alluded too, they'd rather live in the fantasy world of being a strong warrior (without even being anything like one), and have a stronger caste identity to a dharmic one. 

It's not worth getting despondent, bibian can play a massive role in how they raise their kids so that they aren't like the previous lot.  

Amen to all that bro. 

1 hour ago, proudkaur21 said:

I was just thinking the other day how democracy in uneducated countries always backfires on minorities because the uneducated majority will always decide who will rule everyone. I mean if you have 1 intelligent person and 99 fools those 99 fools will decide the fate of everyone. How is this good in any way?

Amen to that too. 

1 hour ago, MisterrSingh said:

Are you sure about that? The same Western Sikhs that have been suppressing info of decades of sexual abuse within the religious community, or even perpetrating it themselves? Western Sikhs who, in order to cultivate a following among the gullible, claim they're reincarnations of legendary Sikh personalities? That's just two relatively recent examples of Western Sikhs proving they're unable to function within the limits of decency. Imagine if we were burdened with actual power within the panth. Think of the shenanigans that would kick-off then.

Amen to that too.

And, those Gurudwara are also run by money and democracy. Reiterate @dallysingh101 we have to start parallel ground level movements. I would add to that, do away with voting and institute representative selections and Panj Pyare, and demonitize as much of the Panth as we can, and instead deal in Seva. 

We only need so many buildings, and we could substitute rural land holdings for half the ones we do have already. The buildings only have to be so nice. And Langar only costs so much. It should not take much money to run a Gurudwara, and even when dealing in less cash than now, we should be able to use that smaller amount of money and still afford to pay Granthis and others for their fulltime services. 

Bungas basically pay for themselves, since people have to pay rent somewhere anyway. 

What's more important is what we can provide for each other through collaboration.

Secondary to all that is what we can do for the world, life itself, others. 

We cannot draw a circle around ourselves, nor can we bend over backwards serving others while we ignore our own house. 

 

[GurjantGnostic]

1 hour ago, dallysingh101 said:

From what I've heard alcohol parties are heavily involved in garnering votes. 

Lol. ... doesn't that preclude them from being eligible to hold any position in theory? 

That's the point of having Khalsa. 

[Premi5]

 

https://www.indiatvnews.com/news/india/why-christian-missionaries-are-trying-to-convert-sikh-youths-in-punjab-aaj-ki-baat-episode-october-13-rajat-sharma-blogpost-740309

 

Opinion | Why Christian missionaries are trying to convert Sikh youths in Punjab?

In some cases, Sikh youths have been offered money and other allurements like visas for US and Canada. 

 

Rajat Sharma@RajatSharmaLive
New DelhiUpdated on: October 14, 2021 13:50 IST

Image Source : INDIA TV

Opinion | Why Christian missionaries are trying to convert Sikh youths in Punjab?

 

Reports about conversion of Sikh youths to Christianity by missionaries in the border areas of Punjab are disturbing. Most of these conversions have been reported from rural and border areas of Punjab like Batala, Gurdaspur, Jalandhar, Ludhiana, Fatehgarh Churian, Dera Baba Nanak, Majitha, Ajnala and Amritsar. The officiating Jathedar of Sri Akal Takht Giani Harpreet Singh has alleged that Christian missionaries have been carrying out conversions in these belts by luring poor Sikh youths.
 
In some cases, Sikh youths have been offered money and other allurements like visas for US and Canada. The president of Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee Bibi Jagir Kaur has launched a counter-drive by sending nearly 150 teams of Sikh preachers, who are trying to convince Sikh youths not to convert to other religions. There are seven preachers in each team and they have been sent to Majha, Malwa and Doaba regions of Punjab. The SGPC drive is named ‘Ghar Ghar Andar Dharamsaal’, which means ‘sacred shrine inside every home’.
 
Bibi Jagir Kaur has said, “our teams of preachers stay for a week in each village, they invite the Sikh Sangat to recitation of Gurbani, Sikh ‘rehat maryada’ (code of conduct), Sikh history and religious principles. Free religious literature on Sikhism is distributed to people to stop them from converting to other religions.”
 
Rising rate of conversions to Christianity has justifiably caused alarm among the Sikh clergy and intellectuals. To counter ‘prayer meetings’ by Christian evangelists, Sikh preachers assemble children inside gurudwaras every evening to teach them the correct recitation of Gurbani (religious hymns) and to create awareness about Sikh religion. The campaign concludes with ‘amrit sanchar’ (initiation rites) on the last day.
 
Christian missionaries are travelling in buses mostly in rural areas of Punjab bordering Pakistan, where they try to spread the gospel. They mostly concentrate on Dalit Mazhabi Sikhs and offer inducements for converting to Christianity. They conduct meetings in villages and induce Dalit Mazhabi Sikh youths to convert and enjoy a good life in developed countries like the US and Canada. Videos are being circulated on social media on how evangelists are trying to convert these Sikh youths, mostly in border areas. This has naturally raised concerns about national security.
 
In my prime time show ‘Aaj Ki Baat’ on Wednesday night, we showed a video sent by Akali Dal leader Manjinder Singh Sirsa. The video showed a village in Ludhiana district, where Sikh elderly persons confronted a team of Christian evangelists and asked them to leave the village. The missionaries were moving from house to house and asking people to convert. The elderly Sikhs in the village told the missionaries that Punjab is the land of the Tenth Badshah, and they need not spread the word of Christianity here.
 
Our correspondent Punit Parinja met a local Sikh leader Gurmail Singh of Dhanoor village, and asked him about the authenticity of the video. Gurmail Singh said, nearly 10 to 15 days ago, 25 to 30 Christian evangelists came to the village and started distributing pamphlets which stated, ‘Join us, we will take you on the path to God’. Some villagers told our reporter that the missionaries were offering jobs and money for converting to Christianity.
 
Akali leader Manjinder Singh Sirsa told India TV that missionaries have tried to lure Sikh youths by offering to arrange visas  and get them settled in the US or Canada. He alleged that such evangelists are active in several districts of Punjab. The Jathedar of Sri Akal Takht Giani Harpreet Singh said, “whatever is happening amounts to an attack on Sikh religion. Missionaries of Church are misguiding people and offering inducements. This is a big danger and Sikh samaj should come forward and fight this menace with full might.”
 
Our reporter showed the video to senior Punjab police officers. One police officer of DSP rank said, till now, they have not received any complaint about forced conversion from anybody, but since the video has surfaced, police would speak to villagers and probe the matter.
 
SGPC chief Bibi Jagir Kaur told India TV that those who are harbouring illusions about converting Sikhs to their religion, should know that the roots of Sikh religion run very deep. Any amount of inducements will not help in religious conversions, she added.
 
Bibi Jagir Kaur said, “we are not in competition with any other religion, nor do we fear anybody. Sikh religion is so strong that no amount of inducements will succeed. We are not afraid of evangelists. We will continue with our own drive for spreading the tenets  of Sikh religion among our people. Only people who are mentally weak will agree to convert to another religion. I do not consider those who have converted as true Sikhs. A true Sikh can never be misguided nor can he convert to another religion because of inducements. Sikhs are taught since childhood to offer supreme sacrifice for the sake of religion.”
 
We sought reaction from Rev. Sunil Solomon from the Church of North India. He said, “our evangelists spread the message of love and Christ’s teachings among the people. We are against forced conversions. It is up to the people to decide which religion they want to choose.”
 
I was surprised when I read reports about Christian missionaries active in the sensitive border areas of Punjab. They should know that Sikhs are a martial race and they have a long history of offering supreme sacrifice for the sake of defending their religion.
 
The history of Sikhs is replete with stories of supreme sacrifices and bravery of the Gurus and their disciples. These evangelists must know that it was Guru Teg Bahadur who took up the sword against Mughal rulers to save Kashmiri Pandits from being forcibly converted to Islam. The Guru himself refused to be converted to Islam and offered supreme sacrifice. The brave sons of Guru Govind Singh refused to be converted to Islam, and opted for martyrdom. Had the Christian evangelists read the history of Sikhs, they would not have ventured to convert people in Punjab.
 
The second point is that, Sikhs have a long history of community service. During calamities, both natural and manmade, Sikhs are the first to come forward to set up community kitchens (langars) to offer food to the needy. The very essence of organizing ‘langar’ in all Sikh gurudwaras is that nobody must sleep on an empty stomach. The gurudwaras offer free medicines, treatment and education to the poor.
 
It is, however, a fact that there is a craze among Sikh youths to opt for better living and they yearn for visas to go to the US, UK or Canada. By dangling inducements like arranging visas, the evangelists may be luring some of the youths to convert, but the Sikh community has now become alert, after the Jathedar of Akal Takht and the SGPC chief have sounded the alarm. The missionaries will not succeed in their aim. The teachings of Guru Nanak have been guiding the Sikhs for several centuries. The nation remains indebted to the Sikh community, which has given supreme sacrifices for defending India.

[MisterrSingh]

^^^ Strange to see mainstream Indian media producing an article like that ^^^ which basically acknowledges Sikh problems and our separateness from the Hindu majority. You'd think they'd privately be gleeful at the prospect of us abandoning the religion. They're probably worried what it might mean for Indian army recruitment numbers if we all start going to church.

[GurjantGnostic]

26 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

^^^ Strange to see mainstream Indian media producing an article like that ^^^ which basically acknowledges Sikh problems and our separateness from the Hindu majority. You'd think they'd privately be gleeful at the prospect of us abandoning the religion. They're probably worried what it might mean for Indian army recruitment numbers if we all start going to church.

In so called christian countries it's quite easy to get one to hate and kill in the name of Jesus ironically.  

But most definitely that narrative would be harder to pull in india. They better keep milking Singhs for muscle. 

[Premi5]

56 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

In so called christian countries it's quite easy to get one to hate and kill in the name of Jesus ironically.  

But most definitely that narrative would be harder to pull in india. They better keep milking Singhs for muscle. 

Plenty of Indians will do whatever they are lead to believe by the media or by bribe. 

[dallysingh101]

I just read this from a person from back home (on another forum). Can anyone confirm this? 

 

Quote

I went to Taran tarn for vacations and I was shocked to see many hoardings of Christian pastors telling people to convert and save themselves, people are converting for 100 bucks, people are being brainwashed and forcibly converted. 

 

[5aaban]

Delhi Sikh body to run propagation drive to curb 'conversion' in Punjab

Amritsar, July 15

In a move ‘parallel’ to the Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee’s (SGPC’s) ‘Dharam Parchar Lehar’, the Delhi Sikh Gurdwara Management Committee (DSGMC) has declared to launch an identical drive to curb ‘conversion’ in Punjab. This drive would be initiated from Amritsar shortly

DSGMC president Harmeet Singh Kalka said the Delhi Sikh body would soon open its office at Guru Tegh Bahadur Nivas in Amritsar. “We plan to kickstart the ‘Dharam Parchar Lehar’ in Punjab within a span of 10 days in which our Sikh preachers will visit different parts of the state,” he said

 

When asked about chances of conflict between the two Sikh bodies, he said, “The SGPC too has been conducting ‘dharam parchar’ in Delhi. The SGPC has also started special bus service for Delhi-based ‘sangat’ for visiting shrines in Punjab, health services and other activities on parallel mode. Likewise, we have resources and we will do it in Punjab,” he said.

On its part, the SGPC’s Dharam Parchar Committee has been running campaign ‘Ghar Ghar Andar Dharamsaal’ since Bibi Jagir Kaur’s tenure in Punjab. The aim was to counter the impact of conversion in which Sikh preachers have been visiting remote villages and border belt to propagate Gurbani, Sikh Rehat Maryada (code of conduct), Sikh history and Sikh principles.

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/punjab/delhi-sikh-body-to-run-propagation-drive-to-curb-conversion-in-punjab-412797