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Gurdwara pushing for LBTQ marriage


Guest Das singh
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14 minutes ago, MuslimNeighbour said:

Your first paragraph is 100% in line with Islam on the issue. Can you show me any of your sources on the matter though?

Does Sikhi even have punishments for anything though? I feel that's a moot point if not.

The concept of this is best summed up here:

ਧਨ ਪਿਰੁ ਏਹਿ ਨ ਆਖੀਅਨਿ ਬਹਨਿ ਇਕਠੇ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਏਕ ਜੋਤਿ ਦੁਇ ਮੂਰਤੀ ਧਨ ਪਿਰੁ ਕਹੀਐ ਸੋਇ ॥: Dhan pir(u) aaheeani bahani ikathae hoi. Ek joti dui mooratee dhan pir(u) kaheeai soi: Wife and husband are not they who pose as one whole; wife and husband are they who are two bodies with one soul (sggs 788).

So to put it logically, marriage can only occur between husband and wife (man and woman). And, there is no physical relationship outside of marriage. Which would make gay marriage/relationship etc. impermissible. 

In terms of punishment, what I mean by that is that the punishment is God's to give. So, we don't go round on a witch hunt and kill people for being gay, which is the case in some countries. It's a fine line to tread, but there you go ??

 

Edit: what was the point of down voting this man's post? He was just asking a question. 

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21 minutes ago, MuslimNeighbour said:

So do you know the punishments prescribed by your faith for the crimes I've mentioned or aren't there any for those specific things?

The concept of the crimes being wrong are there (mentioning that they are wrong and punishable in God's court). However, there is no prescribed worldly punishment in the specific sense. In Sikhi, that authority is given to the Panj Pyare, 5 highly spiritual Gursikhs who represent the Guru himself, and it is they who will mett out the appropriate punishment for the crime.

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3 minutes ago, MuslimNeighbour said:

Hence why I mentioned the 'exact same' crime, murder being the example I gave. Are you 100% certain there is room in Sikhi for capital punishment? I've heard numerous Sikhs 'gloat' in a way, how they don't believe in capital punishment, trying to take the moral high ground.

there is capital punishment in sikhi maybe u just talk to left wing types who try to distort religion for a wider audience

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4 hours ago, Kau89r8 said:

ADL is a website ran by them. And look at whats happening outside with all LGBT forced on kids, sex ed, femnism, economic troubles. Also who are the one people you cannot criticise its them. I know its hard to swallow but these ppl have the western world by the b*lls. They are corrupting our loved ones through media brainwashing and schools. 

Its not just limited to the west even in india and i have  a feeling even in some middle eastern countries this disease is slowly taking root through american influence

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41 minutes ago, MuslimNeighbour said:

Hence why I mentioned the 'exact same' crime, murder being the example I gave. Are you 100% certain there is room in Sikhi for capital punishment? I've heard numerous Sikhs 'gloat' in a way, how they don't believe in capital punishment, trying to take the moral high ground.

There is no moral high ground whether or not you believe in capital punishment.  The point people like to make is "well what if you kill the guy and you find out later he was innocent?". Fine, point taken, but what would you do with a man who is caught on camera with dna evidence brutally raping and killing a child? Rehabilitation? Don't think so, cut off his head i say.

Sikh history has shown in extreme cases capital punishment has been permitted. 

As time goes on, all societies mature. They look at different ways of not only studying and rehabilitating the crimes as criminals, but also better prevention methods and laws to prevent crimes from happening in the first place. And as such, the scope for capital punishment gets smaller (which is what we should all be aiming for). But make no mistake, there are those small number of people who, no matter what happens, they will just never learn. And for them, death is the only antidote.

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Guest London Jwaan
23 hours ago, Koi said:

There is no moral high ground whether or not you believe in capital punishment.  The point people like to make is "well what if you kill the guy and you find out later he was innocent?". Fine, point taken, but what would you do with a man who is caught on camera with dna evidence brutally raping and killing a child? Rehabilitation? Don't think so, cut off his head i say.

Sikh history has shown in extreme cases capital punishment has been permitted. 

As time goes on, all societies mature. They look at different ways of not only studying and rehabilitating the crimes as criminals, but also better prevention methods and laws to prevent crimes from happening in the first place. And as such, the scope for capital punishment gets smaller (which is what we should all be aiming for). But make no mistake, there are those small number of people who, no matter what happens, they will just never learn. And for them, death is the only antidote.

The difference is that muslimneighbour is asking the question in the context of Muslim countries basing their legal Systems, punishments and sentences for crimes based on the Koran.

Whilst the Koran stipulates (or is interpreted as stipulating) specific punishments for specific crimes, eg lashes for this, stoning for that, cutting off heads for this and hands off for that, sikhi specifies no such “sentences”.

 In maharajah ranjit Singh Raj, there were ministers and generals of multiple faiths, and whilst they pledged loyalty to and allegiance to the Sikh Raj, the laws of the land were based on righteousness and principles based on justice. Not on religion. Yes the Raj was based on prosperity for the Sikhs and ideology based on the bani, but day to day justice and laws were not. There was no taliban fanatical equivalent, if you understand what I mean.

Whilst Islam is explicit about punishment for crimes, that is not without its faults either. Take the case of the Saudi princes who keep vast collections of the finest alcohol, fly prostitutes in and engage in a little bit of buggery here and there (refer to the Saudi Prince who buggered his manservant in the landmark hotel in London- and then killed him a few years ago). How come no capital punishment for them??

Notwithstanding the thousands of Arabs who fly into London during the summer with their Supercars and spend the whole of Ramadan drunk, snorting coke, eating Bratwursts and in sexual debauchery with prostitutes...... where is their punishment?

And when the west went into saddam hussains palaces-what About the wine and whisky collections?

 So in summary, sikhi states that it is a Sikh’s obligation to take up arms and fight to defend the innocent, and when it is righteous. It does not say “it’s ok to kill people because of x” or “you should stone someone because of y”.

 And I believe in Islam a rapist can’t be prosecuted unless there are 7 Male witnesses. How does a rape victim Get justice in reality?

Sikhi is a religion based on principles and doing the right thing. It is not a reference guide with prescriptive roles for anything possible that can be misinterpreted, and that those not mentioned explicitly are fair game.

eg many many Muslims do not drink but claim that it is ok to smoke marijuana. Really? Did Mohammed Intend good Muslim’s to smoke dope? On the contrary, sikhi states that no items that provide “nusha” should be consumed, for example.

 Many Muslims talk about idol worship-yet during hajj they throw stones at a rock that represents the devil. Its about symbolism. Is that so different?

 Like guru Nanak said If you’re Hindu, be a good Hindu, if you’re Muslim, be a good Muslim. Don’t be a blood thirsty <banned word filter activated> who wants to kill people because you feel like it, despite hypocrisy that is there to be seen by all.

 The above is all factual. and while fanatical maniacs like jagsaw and jkv May try and alter history retrospectively with bogus facts and propaganda, I would ignore it.

 Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh 

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Guest jigsaw_puzzled-singh
On 8/7/2020 at 3:30 AM, Jonny101 said:

I used to think the same about this. But from my observation I've noticed men from other races such as Asians (Indians+Chinese) middle easterners and black men are not as much infected with this mental disorder. But with white men, homosexuality is as normal for them as breathing air. While for us we feel disgusted to the core about homosexuality, we can't even think about it. But white men magically turn into homos when they go to jail. It's as easy for them as flipping the light switch. And it's not just from modern times, homosexuality was quite normal among white men in ancient Greece and Rome. Christianity(which is a middle eastern religion) suppressed this but now homosexuality has come back in white culture with a vengeance. And they want to normalize this mental disorder amongst other races.

I posted a message with statistics that disprove everything you said a week ago. The Moderators refused to post it here, That's when the discussion here ended. If the Mods want to portray an illusion that everyone else is a a shirt-lifter and only Sikhs are manly warriors than then what is the point of even pretending to have a 'discussion' here ?

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On 8/10/2020 at 8:55 PM, MuslimNeighbour said:

So in theory these Panj Pyare can give a different punishment for the exact same crime? Murder vs murder, not murder vs manslaughter before someone mentions that. Also where do these Panj Pyare derive their punishments from?

Dearest sweet humble Muslim Neighbour,

I trust this finds you well and are safe during the world pandemic.

just a thought, as we live in present time not 1400 yrs ago and new types of crimes occur and illegal activities occur plus other debatable issues in the umma (like  white wine vinegar and beer batter that my Muslims friends hold different views on) where does the laws come for these types of crimes in your Islamic states etc.  Are they from God/Qu’ran or does your scholars make decisions on these and some scholars can’t even agree on the same issue and give different advice outcome on the same issue.  Just a thought though no biggie.

 

Wu-tang is for the children 
 

 

 

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