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[jkvlondon]

3 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Just another note, it is not only the Generation X, it is also the latter end of the Boomer generation that is impacted by this.

It was the latter Boomers were it started from and these aren't always people who came from Punjab. Some of these guys are from East Africa, Singapore/Malaysia. 

It is more the ones from Kenya, Uganda who are like that , malay and Singapore ones are more strict about rehit unless they are from Bhape line of work , guess anything to assimilate and make a buck

[DailyMail]

It's a strange discussion thread.

The East African Sikhs are being called out as being too "westernised" and are held somehow largely responsible for corrupting rural Sikhs.

However, as the world knows, it was the same East African Sikhs who spearheaded the turban campaigns in the late '70's - early 80's all the way to the House of Lords to ensure we can wear turbans in schools and lets be honest, as part of any uniform (because had they lost the legal fight then other institutions would have implemented no turban policy too).

All this whilst these rural Sikhs from India were busy sitting in pubs with haircuts - maybe the East Africans weren't so bad after all?!

 

[Ranjeet01]

17 minutes ago, DailyMail said:

It's a strange discussion thread.

The East African Sikhs are being called out as being too "westernised" and are held somehow largely responsible for corrupting rural Sikhs.

However, as the world knows, it was the same East African Sikhs who spearheaded the turban campaigns in the late '70's - early 80's all the way to the House of Lords to ensure we can wear turbans in schools and lets be honest, as part of any uniform (because had they lost the legal fight then other institutions would have implemented no turban policy too).

All this whilst these rural Sikhs from India were busy sitting in pubs with haircuts - maybe the East Africans weren't so bad after all?!

 

Communities can be paradoxical. These paradoxes are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

The educated East African Sikhs who spearheaded campaigns can also do other things that contradict this.

Conversely, this can be said about Rural Sikhs from Punjab.

Life is not always black and white, there are shades of grey.

[jkvlondon]

16 minutes ago, DailyMail said:

It's a strange discussion thread.

The East African Sikhs are being called out as being too "westernised" and are held somehow largely responsible for corrupting rural Sikhs.

However, as the world knows, it was the same East African Sikhs who spearheaded the turban campaigns in the late '70's - early 80's all the way to the House of Lords to ensure we can wear turbans in schools and lets be honest, as part of any uniform (because had they lost the legal fight then other institutions would have implemented no turban policy too).

All this whilst these rural Sikhs from India were busy sitting in pubs with haircuts - maybe the East Africans weren't so bad after all?!

 

maybe like most groups there are going to be good and bad apples so we should look at thw where and whens of the events .

[californiasardar1]

58 minutes ago, DailyMail said:

It's a strange discussion thread.

The East African Sikhs are being called out as being too "westernised" and are held somehow largely responsible for corrupting rural Sikhs.

However, as the world knows, it was the same East African Sikhs who spearheaded the turban campaigns in the late '70's - early 80's all the way to the House of Lords to ensure we can wear turbans in schools and lets be honest, as part of any uniform (because had they lost the legal fight then other institutions would have implemented no turban policy too).

All this whilst these rural Sikhs from India were busy sitting in pubs with haircuts - maybe the East Africans weren't so bad after all?!

 

 

You are absolutely right in making these points. I can only speak for myself, but I should have been more clear that the "westernization" that the East African Sikhs brought, in my opinion, had to do with women behaving less "traditionally" than they might in families that recently arrived from Punjabi pinds. I apologize for my mistake.

 

But you are right, "rural" (I'm using the term "rural" to stand in for  something else, but I'm sure you know what I mean) Sikhs are absolutely pathetic when it comes to keeping kesh. I say this as someone who comes from precisely this background.

I'm not holding any other group responsible for "corrupting" rural Sikhs. As we see in modern day Punjab, rural Sikhs are quite adept at corrupting themselves. I just was noting how the further the time-distance from India, the further various Sikh communities have moved from traditional Punjabi cultural practices in various ways.

 

[Ranjeet01]

19 minutes ago, californiasardar1 said:

 

You are absolutely right in making these points. I can only speak for myself, but I should have been more clear that the "westernization" that the East African Sikhs brought, in my opinion, had to do with women behaving less "traditionally" than they might in families that recently arrived from Punjabi pinds. I apologize for my mistake.

 

But you are right, "rural" (I'm using the term "rural" to stand in for  something else, but I'm sure you know what I mean) Sikhs are absolutely pathetic when it comes to keeping kesh. I say this as someone who comes from precisely this background.

I'm not holding any other group responsible for "corrupting" rural Sikhs. As we see in modern day Punjab, rural Sikhs are quite adept at corrupting themselves. I just was noting how the further the time-distance from India, the further various Sikh communities have moved from traditional Punjabi cultural practices in various ways.

 

There are plenty Urban Sikhs that there kesh too.

It was the East African Sikhs that brought the trimmed beard and turban into the UK. 

[californiasardar1]

10 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

There are plenty Urban Sikhs that there kesh too.

It was the East African Sikhs that brought the trimmed beard and turban into the UK. 

 

Yes, there are plenty of "urban" Sikhs who cut their kesh too. But let's be honest here: they still keep their kesh at a much higher rate than "rural" Sikhs.

 

The trimmed beard and turban is not an East African innovation. That style has existed in Punjab for a very long time. The reason you can say that the East African Sikhs "brought it into the UK" is because the kinds of "rural" Sikhs who would trim their beards in Punjab would take it one step further and remove their paghs and head hair before moving to the UK (showing a combination of cowardice and lack of confidence even though they like to portray themselves as brave, confident people). The only "rural" Sikhs who kept their paghs intact after moving to the west were the 100% pakay ones (with full beards too).

 

[Kau89r8]

[jkvlondon]

2 minutes ago, californiasardar1 said:

 

Yes, there are plenty of "urban" Sikhs who cut their kesh too. But let's be honest here: they still keep their kesh at a much higher rate than "rural" Sikhs.

 

The trimmed beard and turban is not an East African innovation. That style has existed in Punjab for a very long time. The reason you can say that the East African Sikhs "brought it into the UK" is because the kinds of "rural" Sikhs who would trim their beards in Punjab would take it one step further and remove their paghs before moving to the UK (showing a combination of cowardice and lack of confidence even though they like to portray themselves as brave, confident people). The only "rural" Sikhs who kept their paghs intact after moving to the west were the 100% pakay ones (with full beards too).

 

the reason my Dad was considered a good match for my Mum was the fact he came to UK by himself for a couple of years during the sixties and returned to India sabat soorat as opposed to those NRIs who came back from Canada and America monay. As my Pardnana ji Said if he came back uncorrupted and is not demanding goods/money prior to marriage he will be good to look after my granddaughter in foreign climes. This was despite him not being amritdhari , I think the excuse that we had to cut our hair to get work died way back at that time but it is still used today by weakminded folk

[Ranjeet01]

10 minutes ago, californiasardar1 said:

 

Yes, there are plenty of "urban" Sikhs who cut their kesh too. But let's be honest here: they still keep their kesh at a much higher rate than "rural" Sikhs.

 

The trimmed beard and turban is not an East African innovation. That style has existed in Punjab for a very long time. The reason you can say that the East African Sikhs "brought it into the UK" is because the kinds of "rural" Sikhs who would trim their beards in Punjab would take it one step further and remove their paghs and head hair before moving to the UK (showing a combination of cowardice and lack of confidence even though they like to portray themselves as brave, confident people). The only "rural" Sikhs who kept their paghs intact after moving to the west were the 100% pakay ones (with full beards too).

 

Yes you are correct on rural Sikhs less likely keep kesh.

But a lot of the East African Sikhs also cut their kesh and wear their paghs on top and have 5 o'clock shadow.