Khalistan revisited 2020

[Guest Guest 101]

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh

I recently had a few conversations around Khalistan with a few family members and friends, and very quickly realised the converstion gets heated very quickly.

So  ive made an anonymous account in an effort to get some feedback on some of my thoughts on the issue.

In breif I belive the issue to be summarised as such;

Sikh Panth has two options, each with its pros' and cons, namly;

1- Stay with India

2- Create an independant state.

1- Stay with India - Pros are we are part of large country that will be an economic power in the coming years. Sikhs are concidered part of the native religions by Hindus and we have been part of (modern) India since independance. 

1- Stay with India - Cons, Certain Hindu ideologies want to merge the Sikh Panth into Hinduism and remove any notion of an independant Sikh state. moving Hindus into Punjab ( the only Sikh majority area in the world) to reduce the Sikh population to below 50% and making it a minority. (looking at the demoghraphic statistics the Sikh population is around 56-57% Sikh, and due to various reasons - both internal and external, the Sikh population is decreaing). By 2050 by most experts, punjab will no longer be a Sikh majority state. With this and a general loss of Sikh religious identity, there is a danger that the religion itself will become weaker and end up as one of those abscure, weak religions like Rastafarianism or Zoroastrianism. 

2 - Create an independant state Pros - Lets Sikhs take matters in their own hands, having an independant state also means cementing a sikh identify in the birthplace of sikhism, which can act as an achor for Sikhs globally. 

2- Create an independant state Cons - Common issues that people raise are : What will this state look like? will it include West Punjab and Lahore? will it include parts of Punjab that were divided into other states in India? What about the large Hindu population with Punjab? These are all valid points, A land is claimed for two primary reasons, Population or history, Sikh can't claim West Punjab or Lahore in Pakistan on both accounts, or the parts of Punjab divided into other Indian states, or maybe even parts of Punjab where the Hindus are a majority. So what are left with is a very small piece of land that is landlocked between 2 nuclear powers. Looking at how India reacted to a free hyderabad during partition and a free Kashmir, any serious attempts of a Free Khalistan will be met with huge resistance and Sikhs will need international allies if their new nation were to survive. Also a serious Khalistan would need a main united Sikh population that would be willing to go through all thee hardships of making a new nation, which we don't see. Added to this is we don't even have a theoretical constitution, economic, defense, political plans etc.

So that leaves us in a doomed if you do and doomed if you don't scenario. 

I suggested a third option in my discussions which proved to be a little contraversial, and im hoping I could have a mature arguement here.

Option 3 would be to make the Sikh majority state of Punjab, part of Pakistan. Ofcourse this will have Pros and Cons like the ones above, but I believe, although not ideal, it would be the best option.

Pros: Joins Punjab to West Punjab and allows easy movement of Sikhs to not only to West Punjab but also Peshawar and Kashmir. Khalistan is no longer landlocked and can join the China CPEC project. Muslims dont accept Sikhism as part of Islam therefore there is no danger of the Sikh culture being incorporated into Islam. Sikhs can be part of a bigger country and have a an indentity. 

Cons. Pakistan may not accept this as it doesn't bring them much benefit apart from slapping India. The India state will concider this as treason and may send military forces to stop this from happening. Even if this does happen, what guarentees are there that Sikh wont be mistreated in Pakistan. What would a Sikh state under an Islamic republic look like? Sikhs will still be a minority.

These are the only logical options Khalistan has,  what are your thoughts?

 

[Kaurr]

I'm all in for an independant state, but how do we know that sikhs will have it easy in the separate state?

What if the same people that are managing current punjab, start managing the separate state?

[Guest London jwaan]

8 hours ago, Guest Guest 101 said:

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh

I recently had a few conversations around Khalistan with a few family members and friends, and very quickly realised the converstion gets heated very quickly.

So  ive made an anonymous account in an effort to get some feedback on some of my thoughts on the issue.

In breif I belive the issue to be summarised as such;

Sikh Panth has two options, each with its pros' and cons, namly;

1- Stay with India

2- Create an independant state.

1- Stay with India - Pros are we are part of large country that will be an economic power in the coming years. Sikhs are concidered part of the native religions by Hindus and we have been part of (modern) India since independance. 

1- Stay with India - Cons, Certain Hindu ideologies want to merge the Sikh Panth into Hinduism and remove any notion of an independant Sikh state. moving Hindus into Punjab ( the only Sikh majority area in the world) to reduce the Sikh population to below 50% and making it a minority. (looking at the demoghraphic statistics the Sikh population is around 56-57% Sikh, and due to various reasons - both internal and external, the Sikh population is decreaing). By 2050 by most experts, punjab will no longer be a Sikh majority state. With this and a general loss of Sikh religious identity, there is a danger that the religion itself will become weaker and end up as one of those abscure, weak religions like Rastafarianism or Zoroastrianism. 

2 - Create an independant state Pros - Lets Sikhs take matters in their own hands, having an independant state also means cementing a sikh identify in the birthplace of sikhism, which can act as an achor for Sikhs globally. 

2- Create an independant state Cons - Common issues that people raise are : What will this state look like? will it include West Punjab and Lahore? will it include parts of Punjab that were divided into other states in India? What about the large Hindu population with Punjab? These are all valid points, A land is claimed for two primary reasons, Population or history, Sikh can't claim West Punjab or Lahore in Pakistan on both accounts, or the parts of Punjab divided into other Indian states, or maybe even parts of Punjab where the Hindus are a majority. So what are left with is a very small piece of land that is landlocked between 2 nuclear powers. Looking at how India reacted to a free hyderabad during partition and a free Kashmir, any serious attempts of a Free Khalistan will be met with huge resistance and Sikhs will need international allies if their new nation were to survive. Also a serious Khalistan would need a main united Sikh population that would be willing to go through all thee hardships of making a new nation, which we don't see. Added to this is we don't even have a theoretical constitution, economic, defense, political plans etc.

So that leaves us in a doomed if you do and doomed if you don't scenario. 

I suggested a third option in my discussions which proved to be a little contraversial, and im hoping I could have a mature arguement here.

Option 3 would be to make the Sikh majority state of Punjab, part of Pakistan. Ofcourse this will have Pros and Cons like the ones above, but I believe, although not ideal, it would be the best option.

Pros: Joins Punjab to West Punjab and allows easy movement of Sikhs to not only to West Punjab but also Peshawar and Kashmir. Khalistan is no longer landlocked and can join the China CPEC project. Muslims dont accept Sikhism as part of Islam therefore there is no danger of the Sikh culture being incorporated into Islam. Sikhs can be part of a bigger country and have a an indentity. 

Cons. Pakistan may not accept this as it doesn't bring them much benefit apart from slapping India. The India state will concider this as treason and may send military forces to stop this from happening. Even if this does happen, what guarentees are there that Sikh wont be mistreated in Pakistan. What would a Sikh state under an Islamic republic look like? Sikhs will still be a minority.

These are the only logical options Khalistan has,  what are your thoughts?

 

Option 3 that you propose is simply idiotic I’m afraid.

For arguments sake, Let’s say it happened.....

how many hours do you think it will remain independent for, before Pakistan sends its army in with their tanks, aircraft etc and annex it into a part of Pakistan, killing, torturing, raping and forcibly converting Sikhs?

i think about an hour and a half is a fair estimate.

[Guest Guest]

@Kaurr

we don’t, there are no guarantees in either scenario however if we do nothing we are destined to be doomed. 

 

[Guest Guest 101]

@Kaurr

i did say there are pros and cons for each scenario, however the overall benefit would put weight any harm. 

a free Punjab would go through a difficult period initially in terms of leadership and economy as all new nations do, but then slowly and surely they will find their feet.  

[Kaurr]

This could either be the best thing that happen to punjabi- cause punjab has a lot of poterntial, or the worst- people vote for the same idiots and it just becomes a living hell with no power. Right now, with the people's mentalities, its leaning towards the worst.

[Shaheed4life]

If Khalistan happens the Panj Pyare of Akaal Takhat should lead as government.This is what is mentioned in Bhai Rama Singh ji's book.He said that in his dream of Khalsa Raj,Panj Pyare led government.

[Kaurr]

2 hours ago, Shaheed4life said:

If Khalistan happens the Panj Pyare of Akaal Takhat should lead as government.This is what is mentioned in Bhai Rama Singh ji's book.He said that in his dream of Khalsa Raj,Panj Pyare led government.

It should

But if today's separate state happen, will the idiots we have today let panj pyare lead it?.................

[Shaheed4life]

40 minutes ago, Kaurr said:

It should

But if today's separate state happen, will the idiots we have today let panj pyare lead it?.................

True.Those in power now won't let their power go away so easily but it will still happen.

[Guest Guest]

Absolutely agree panj pyare should lead the Khalistan govt, only way to ensure decisions made according to gurmat. Also with current horrific cases of beadbi of Guru Maharaj and Badals influencing many many things I don’t think Khalistan anywhere is the right option at this moment in time. Look at Punjab at this moment- huge intoxicant problem, Christian missionaries having free reign and the aforementioned problems- these are extremely weak foundations to build a Sikh state on. As Bhai Jagraj Singh always used to say- raj karega khalsa means Khalsa will rule the whole world- why settle for these small states where essentially u have a large Sikh population concentrated in one area at the mercy of India/ Pakistan- if any of these countries do anything like 1984 style attacks it will be too easy for them to walk in and kill 10s or even 100s of thousands of Sikhs. This may sound like a broken record but naam simran, gurbani and satkaar (respect) for Guru Ji are where we all need to make a foundation in our own individual lives- build sikhi in our households then slowly slowly we can spread gursikhi rather than this punjabiism. Set the example in the west then Punjab will take notice. Sorry for sounding preachy- this moorakh knows so little but after reading and stressing over Khalistan a lot as a youngster I realised when I started listening to katha and reading gurbani how compassionate Guru Maharaj is. Guru Gobind Singh Kalgidhar Patshah Maharaj WANTS the Khalsa to flourish- the Khalsa is the form of Guru Gobind Singh so as long as we aspire to follow the ‘rules’ of the Khalsa (and continue to follow if fortunate enough to have already chakked Amrit) Guru Maharaj will take care of the rest. I’m gonna try to find the amazing story I read of Baba Banda Singh Bahadur and someone’s experience of him in Sachkhand related to this topic. Please forgive me for speaking out of line if I did and for any offence caused/ flaana. 
 

VJKK VJKF!!