‘Religious differences’ spark large fight at Sikh temple, police say

[KingJohal 0]

There was a fight in Renton Wa at the local Gurdwara. No idea what this is over, was hoping maybe someone had insight as to what is going on over there? Its apparently due to "religious difference going on within our community" and started a few weeks ago when there was another fight at Gurdwara in Kent.. Could it be related to that wedding that took place in California? 

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/police-firefighters-respond-possible-assault-sikh-temple/6YMCWNFHSREE7GMH5PMO7YRRIQ/ 

[KhoonKaBadlaKhoon2 19]

No not related to that. Just two groups of men who do not like each other. 

[ipledgeblue 241]

the committee system just doesn't work and we need an overhaul

[Punjabiwolves 638]

The last thing you need in these times is a Gudwara committee fight. The police already have there hand full. . 

[Redoptics 233]

On 10/21/2020 at 9:44 AM, ipledgeblue said:

the committee system just doesn't work and we need an overhaul

Yeah because they want just want the money, cream i got the money, dollar, dollar bills yall 

[imhosingh 95]

Come on being on the committee helps you get access to local politicians and you get sweet deals with the bank's who get the gurdwara bank accounts / give the loans for building funds. Committee members shun all this for the interests of the sangat, honest guvna 

[Not2Cool2Argue 561]

On 10/21/2020 at 1:44 AM, ipledgeblue said:

the committee system just doesn't work and we need an overhaul

Nah.

We need our ppl to be better. And to choose better leaders.

Cuz any institution and type of government can be corrupted in the hands of selfish ppl.

We had masands. Knowledgeable scholars who spent whole life and for generations serving gurudware.

That failed.  So then we had SGPC. which we fought to create and give shaheedian for. And now we hate it.

We had akaali party. Same thing. 

Now taksaals going that route. Ppl r starting to hate it. 

I mean even a parchaar and education movement got corrupted. The missionaries.

In kulyug.everything gets rotten and corrupt. Theres no fool proof. Only thing we can do is be vigilant that our institutions arent going downhill. Instead of scraping them n restarting

[KhoonKaBadlaKhoon2 19]

2 hours ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

Nah.

We need our ppl to be better. And to choose better leaders.

Cuz any institution and type of government can be corrupted in the hands of selfish ppl.

We had masands. Knowledgeable scholars who spent whole life and for generations serving gurudware.

That failed.  So then we had SGPC. which we fought to create and give shaheedian for. And now we hate it.

We had akaali party. Same thing. 

Now taksaals going that route. Ppl r starting to hate it. 

I mean even a parchaar and education movement got corrupted. The missionaries.

In kulyug.everything gets rotten and corrupt. Theres no fool proof. Only thing we can do is be vigilant that our institutions arent going downhill. Instead of scraping them n restarting

I agree. I just dont understand how people think you'll get rid of committees and somehow chose the perfect Panj who will not be corrupt. Why can we chose the perfect Panj but totally f**k up come gurdwara election time? 

[Not2Cool2Argue 561]

22 hours ago, KhoonKaBadlaKhoon2 said:

I agree. I just dont understand how people think you'll get rid of committees and somehow chose the perfect Panj who will not be corrupt. Why can we chose the perfect Panj but totally f**k up come gurdwara election time? 

Selection vs election. Voting where everyone has a vote and easily be manipulated by bribes, bussing in ur relatives and friends to vote. 

While the panj are selected. 

But if we implement selection in gurudwara committees that will also create problems. Ppl will nominate figureheads or weaklungs they can control. Factions will again develop backing up different candidates.

The thing is being one of the panj isnt really desired. No power no benefits. Masa labde amrit sinchaar laye.

While committe chair is desired. So even selection process will get corrupted.

Only way to fix it, is to join in and fight. But bhai jagraj singh of basics of sikhi tried with Tera Panth Vesai party. And it was a failure due to dirty politics. The opposite party i think sher or was it baaj printed horrible allegations on the female members. And most of the youth dropped out of the party, couldnt handle it.

So good people have to stand up but it requires too much effort. So the selfish ppl keep standing in elections as they have skin in the game and are willing to fight tooth and nail for it.

Like they say, the only way evil can win is if good ppl do nothing. 

[GurjantGnostic 583]

7 minutes ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

Selection vs election. Voting where everyone has a vote and easily be manipulated by bribes, bussing in ur relatives and friends to vote. 

While the panj are selected. 

But if we implement selection in gurudwara committees that will also create problems. Ppl will nominate figureheads or weaklungs they can control. Factions will again develop backing up different candidates.

The thing is being one of the panj isnt really desired. No power no benefits. Masa labde amrit sinchaar laye.

While committe chair is desired. So even selection process will get corrupted.

Only way to fix it, is to join in and fight. But bhai jagraj singh of basics of sikhi tried with Tera Panth Vesai party. And it was a failure due to dirty politics. The opposite party i think sher or was it baaj printed horrible allegations on the female members. And most of the youth dropped out of the party, couldnt handle it.

So good people have to stand up but it requires too much effort. So the selfish ppl keep standing in elections as they have skin in the game and are willing to fight tooth and nail for it.

Like they say, the only way evil can win is if good ppl do nothing. 

What are your thoughts on a representative system where say seven families, whatever number turns out to be useful, all select one representative, then those representatives either select another smaller tier of representatives or the Panj Pyare? 

What if each Panj Pyare selected a representative, that could be changed, to meet with other representatives from other Gurudwara and the Panj Pyare of Akal Takht was selected this way?

Whether or not an individual Gurudwara wanted to respect the representation if the Sangat simply did this outside of the Gurudwara structure they could come to consensus about things and approach the existing committee unified. 

In similar fashion, if Akal Takht did not want to respect the representation of a global Gurudwara network of representatives, then the Sangat could approach Akal Takht in a unified manner. 

[Not2Cool2Argue 561]

22 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

What are your thoughts on a representative system where say seven families, whatever number turns out to be useful, all select one representative, then those representatives either select another smaller tier of representatives or the Panj Pyare? 

What if each Panj Pyare selected a representative, that could be changed, to meet with other representatives from other Gurudwara and the Panj Pyare of Akal Takht was selected this way?

Whether or not an individual Gurudwara wanted to respect the representation if the Sangat simply did this outside of the Gurudwara structure they could come to consensus about things and approach the existing committee unified. 

In similar fashion, if Akal Takht did not want to respect the representation of a global Gurudwara network of representatives, then the Sangat could approach Akal Takht in a unified manner. 

This is a good idea.

Ive thought of something similar. 

Sangat is divided by area and jatha/affiliations.

So the akj in toronto get 5 representatives as do taksalis, nihangs, nanksariye, missionary, and 1 miscellaneous in toronto. And akj, taksali etc in BC will have their own 5 representatives. 

So to make decisions for toronto, each group will choose 1 of their panj(the jathedaar) to make the city wide panj. As they will be from different jathas, but each jatha has representation, what ever they decide applies to every jatha. 

And then the state or province panj will be made when the ecity panj each choose one from within them to be jathedaar and represent them in state council. The fact that the different sects have to choose someone they all agree will represent them will hopefully make them chose the best character, honest, kamaii wale persons. And every jatha will sent their best as they would want their representative to be chosen as the jathedaar.  

Similarily nationally, all the states have to choose the best 5 to send to national council. 

And the national council will choose the best 5 to send to the international council.

I dont know if that makes sense 

[jkvlondon 5,300]

On 10/22/2020 at 8:48 PM, Not2Cool2Argue said:

Nah.

We need our ppl to be better. And to choose better leaders.

Cuz any institution and type of government can be corrupted in the hands of selfish ppl.

We had masands. Knowledgeable scholars who spent whole life and for generations serving gurudware.

That failed.  So then we had SGPC. which we fought to create and give shaheedian for. And now we hate it.

We had akaali party. Same thing. 

Now taksaals going that route. Ppl r starting to hate it. 

I mean even a parchaar and education movement got corrupted. The missionaries.

In kulyug.everything gets rotten and corrupt. Theres no fool proof. Only thing we can do is be vigilant that our institutions arent going downhill. Instead of scraping them n restarting

sgpc was filled with high quality people at the start but very soon those folks were sidelined and the dhongi sikh brigade turned up to rip off golak for GOI and Punjab sarkar to bank roll antisikh outfits  and activities . Used to be you had to be rehitvaan gursikhs to lead jathey and look after gurdwarey but now we just have bhekhi sikhs who have no sharam in ordering meat to eat in sgpc offices in gurdwara complex, the recent raagi protest was because the head granthi was not of calibre to even know raags suitable for what time or even proper maryada of hazoori  raagis and their rights to select gurshabads they will perform . the problem is letting lesser sikhs masquerade as experts in all spheres of sikhi life. parchaariks and satkar committees should be formed and armed with full skillsets .

[Not2Cool2Argue 561]

18 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

sgpc was filled with high quality people at the start but very soon those folks were sidelined and the dhongi sikh brigade turned up to rip off golak for GOI and Punjab sarkar to bank roll antisikh outfits  and activities . Used to be you had to be rehitvaan gursikhs to lead jathey and look after gurdwarey but now we just have bhekhi sikhs who have no sharam in ordering meat to eat in sgpc offices in gurdwara complex, the recent raagi protest was because the head granthi was not of calibre to even know raags suitable for what time or even proper maryada of hazoori  raagis and their rights to select gurshabads they will perform . the problem is letting lesser sikhs masquerade as experts in all spheres of sikhi life. parchaariks and satkar committees should be formed and armed with full skillsets .

Until the satkar committee also filled with 'lesser sikhs' and gets corrupted

[jkvlondon 5,300]

33 minutes ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

Until the satkar committee also filled with 'lesser sikhs' and gets corrupted

that's why complacency should never to tolerated or beadbhi

[ipledgeblue 241]

8 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

Used to be you had to be rehitvaan gursikhs to lead jathey and look after gurdwarey but now we just have bhekhi sikhs who have no sharam in ordering meat to eat in sgpc offices in gurdwara complex, 

I mean before SGPC, the Akali Nihangs used to do jhatka in front of Akal Takht/Bunga (admin please don't get annoyed just stating history!!!). But I guess in a way ordering meat in is still kind of shameless since it isn't parshad like jhatka!