Hukam vs Not-Hukam

[Not2Cool2Argue]

9 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Acceptance aside, how would I know to challenge something that has passed into Not-Hukam?

For example, I'm walking past a well. A little kiddy falls in. I can say, "The child falling in is part of Hukam. It's not my business to intercede," which is difficult to refute.

Objectively, and unbeknownst to me, it IS Hukam for that child to die from the fall in the well, but I manage to get him out, thus transgressing Hukam.

Would I be punished in the afterlife for defying Hukam? Or by helping the child out of the well, has the earlier Hukam evolved into another form of equally valid Hukam that's rolled with the punches thrown up by the unpredictability of life? So, even my actions, as unforeseen as they may be, are now part of Hukam?

If so, how can a normal human being ever hope to stay on the correct and acceptable side of something so fluid?

If it was hukam, u could not prevent it even if u tried. 

Hukam is not so easily changed. 

For us normal beings, we r in hukam, there is no way to circumnavigate it. Except for suicide. But as that becomes our karma, its still part of hukam? Our instincts, fears, desires, level of intellect is all predetermined. So how can we make a decision outside of hukam?

So many times, we forget things, take the wrong route, press the wrong pedal accidently, woke up late and missed the accident on the freeway etc Its hukam leading us to our karma. Our control is so fragile. 

Only those with superpowers that can raise the dead, heal ppl. They have the ability to change hukam. They are usually cautioned not to interfere.

There r multiple stories illustrating this. A sikh gained the ability to heal ppl by passing a green light thru his hands. So he became famous for it. But in the end, he lost that ability and suffered a horrible death. 

Also a sant raised his dead father i think it was, he was fine for a couple of dies, but then his body started to rot while he was still alive. And then the sant and everyone was praying to please end his life.

 

 

 

[MisterrSingh]

16 minutes ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

If it was hukam, u could not prevent it even if u tried. 

Hukam is not so easily changed.

But if it becomes Hukam that I should interject and succeed?

[AcceptWill201]

Theres alot of different views above and to some extent everyones got a valid point.

I do believe good or bad, it is all his hukam, however we still have a choice to act righteously or conciously.

What i struggle with is when people who do wrong or hurt someone and say 'oh its hukam, chalo accept it'  instead of being accountable for their actions or fixing thing. Whilst yes its hukam, the karma created is also part of that hukam. 

Its really complex and maybe we cant really pin point it down to a single phrase or view point. Maybe our limited intellect and ego cant really comprehend it.

In the end this tuk comes to mind....

ਹੁਕਮੁ ਨ ਕਹਿਆ ਜਾਈ ॥

Hukam N Kehiaa Jaaee ||

His Command cannot be described.

[brotha]

 

I think we are forgetting or not being aware, that, our present state of each soul is that we are a consequence of Hukum, as I said above, Hukum means also Law of Nature, so what is that consequence of which are we talking about?

The consequence referred above, is law of karma which also operates by His hukum.

Once we are under the law of karma, we have a very limted free wil, for our present is based on our past; and our future will be partially dependant of our present karmas.

I say partially, because there is still a vast stcok of our karmas which we have been collecting in each birth, and to this stock, the karmas of our prsent life will be added.

One life is nothing in comparison to our infinite stock of karmas. In reality, this creation is made in such a way, that we can never stop doing or incurring in karmas, it is  a trap in a way, though from a higher point of view, it could be like  parents sending their children away from them to mature,  and learn something of righteousness, of morality, of mercy, of devotion, of kindness.

From this point of view, before anybody blames Waheguru, He sent us to become full consciouss aware by being away from Him, but since we stepped this mayavee creation, we have messed up, we have forgotten our origin Satnam, and incurred heavily in karam, up to this very day.

That is why Guru Sahiban, Bhagat Jan come to awaken us to that higher reality of Satnam, and Gurbani is a living example  of this fact.

Once we are under the susequent reactions of karmas, a law based on Hukum, as one sows so does one one reap, our only way to get out of this creation, it is His simran is as per Bani.

For in Sukhmani Sahib, out of Their infinite love and grace for us, Guru Jee reveals us the secret of spirituality by clearly telling us:

Prabh ka simran, garb na baseh.

Now, His simran has 2 sided effects;  first it purifies us from all of our karmas(we become karmaless), and secondly with this devotion of His simran, we do not incurr in any significant karmas which could be added to our stock,  for all karam is burnt away, thus we are totally free without any bonds to withold us in this creation, so to say then only we merge in Him with His kirpa.

SSA.

* as our knowledge is limited, and the law of karmas is very complex, beyond any logic at our level, out duty is always, always to act in morality: goodness,fairness, no harm, no abuses, no cheating, mercy and forgiveness , no partiallity... in one word, to act virtoulsly.

As Sree Krishna Jee says: in your hands is only to do karmas, it is in my hands the fruits of your karmas. With thsi he means, not to favor anybody, but, that our karmas are administered under His Hukum, where no bribery nor any treachery reaches. 

[brotha]

 

 

In the picture above, we see that Guru Jee is telling us,  

that, if we workg for the world, 

or whether  we work to seek Him under the Law of Nature,

we shall get that only,  that what we work into(karmas),

no more, no less.

Aapay beejeh, aapay khaae.

[MisterrSingh]

13 hours ago, AcceptWill201 said:

Theres alot of different views above and to some extent everyones got a valid point.

I do believe good or bad, it is all his hukam, however we still have a choice to act righteously or conciously.

What i struggle with is when people who do wrong or hurt someone and say 'oh its hukam, chalo accept it'  instead of being accountable for their actions or fixing thing. Whilst yes its hukam, the karma created is also part of that hukam. 

Its really complex and maybe we cant really pin point it down to a single phrase or view point. Maybe our limited intellect and ego cant really comprehend it.

In the end this tuk comes to mind....

ਹੁਕਮੁ ਨ ਕਹਿਆ ਜਾਈ ॥

Hukam N Kehiaa Jaaee ||

His Command cannot be described.

This is a deep-rooted mentality in certain Indic cultures that irks me quite a lot. It's an abnegation of responsibility and a lack of desire to respond rooted in fear and ignorance. It probably goes some way to explain why these people and lands were conquered and subjugated repeatedly throughout the centuries ("Oh well, it's God's Hukam that I'm being pillaged, raped, and butchered. So be it"). That's so wrong.

[Shaheed4life]

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh 

Nice topic.If I'm not wrong Hukam is the following things

When we are supposed to be born

Where we are supposed to be born 

How long we are supposed to live

Who our family is

Everyone we meet in our life as we have some Lehna Dehna with them.

What we are supposed to eat

Where we are supposed to travel.

How we are supposed to die

And more things like that.

@MisterrSingh

The example you gave above of the Child dropping into a well.That is Hukam as that is a problem and an experience he is supposed to go through but we cannot say that just because its Hukam we cannot help.We should still do our part and help.Now if it is in Hukam to die then no matter how much we try he will drown, but that does not mean we do not try.Hope I make sense.

Another thing I would like to add on is that people doing bad things and crimes are not Hukam.If they are to meet with bad company that is Hukam, but we can simply choose to make them into out Sangat or to make them into hi bye friends.For example i had a childhood friend who was friends with me for years.Then one day he noticed that my beard has started growing so he told me that I should cut it.I told him no 2 times.Then the 3rd time I told him off that my Guru is more important than your opinion and since then I stopped talking to him as a friend.Whenever I see him I just say hi and bye.Now it was Hukam for me to meet that person but it is my choice if I want to mix with him and cut my beard or if I ignore him and keep my beard.

Thankfully i ignored him and continued keeping my beard.

Hope I helped a little

Bhul Chuk Maf

[MisterrSingh]

@Shaheed4life

That made sense, bro. You've given me a few more things to think about.

[Shaheed4life]

1 hour ago, MisterrSingh said:

@Shaheed4life

That made sense, bro. You've given me a few more things to think about.

[Akalifauj]

8 hours ago, Shaheed4life said:

Another thing I would like to add on is that people doing bad things and crimes are not Hukam.

So these things happen outside of Hukam?  

Disclaimer: please don't be scared of the question.