issue with trying to learn Gurmukhi PLEASE PLEASE HELP ME my humble benti

[Guest guest]

I took santhia classes and they told me not to pronounce these.  A granthi also told me not to pronounce them.  When I listen to Gurbani online or on TV, they don't pronounce them either.  This is wrong, because by not pronouncing them you are sometimes changing the meaning of the saloks.

[ipledgeblue]

On 11/23/2020 at 9:55 PM, Guest guest said:

I took santhia classes and they told me not to pronounce these.  A granthi also told me not to pronounce them.  When I listen to Gurbani online or on TV, they don't pronounce them either.  This is wrong, because by not pronouncing them you are sometimes changing the meaning of the saloks.

that is strange, because these can be pronounced lightly without changing the meanings. let me see if I can find a video where this is pronounced.

like some paat I listen to when the paati is saying: 

ੴ ਸਤਿ ਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ
EK ONG KAR SAT GUR PRASAD

 they are saying prasad(i), like pronouncing the sihari.

The sihari is quite light compared to bihari, so not everyone will notice.

Because, remember, the way we speak punjabi is different from British English. Like for standard english you try and say the words as-is. But in punjabi we have accents, and the sihari and aunkar for words also kind of adds an accent.

Like if someone has the name Deepinder or Bhupinder, some people especially outside punjab may right their names as Deepindra or Bhupindra. And I don't think this is as strong as using a kanna, it's just a little bit of desi accent in the end!

[Guest guest]

On 11/25/2020 at 11:31 AM, ipledgeblue said:

Because, remember, the way we speak punjabi is different from British English. Like for standard english you try and say the words as-is. But in punjabi we have accents, and the sihari and aunkar for words also kind of adds an accent.

Like if someone has the name Deepinder or Bhupinder, some people especially outside punjab may right their names as Deepindra or Bhupindra. And I don't think this is as strong as using a kanna, it's just a little bit of desi accent in the end!

Deepindra or Bhupindra are the classical spellings of the name.  

The word Bhakt and Bhakti are two different words.  Bhakti is spelt with a siharee and you can hear it clearly.  If you skip that siharee than you are saying Bhakt.

[ipledgeblue]

On 11/29/2020 at 9:50 PM, Guest guest said:

 Bhakti is spelt with a siharee and you can hear it clearly.  If you skip that siharee than you are saying Bhakt.

Nope,

ਭਗਤੀ bhakti/bhagti/bhagtee is spelt with a bihari, that is why you hear it clearly.

 

with a siharee it becomes

ਭਗਤਿ bhagat(i)/ bhakt(i)

there will still be some change in pronouncing the akhar at the end, than without the siharee.

With the siharee you don't hear it clearly within the context you are talking about.

[Guest guest]

On 12/1/2020 at 9:30 AM, ipledgeblue said:

Nope,

ਭਗਤੀ bhakti/bhagti/bhagtee is spelt with a bihari, that is why you hear it clearly.

 

with a siharee it becomes

ਭਗਤਿ bhagat(i)/ bhakt(i)

there will still be some change in pronouncing the akhar at the end, than without the siharee.

With the siharee you don't hear it clearly within the context you are talking about.

so why is the siharee clearly pronounced in 'SatiNaam'?

also- Praanpati in Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Bani- the siharee should be pronounced.  The word is Pati not Pat.

[Guest guest]

On 12/1/2020 at 9:30 AM, ipledgeblue said:

Nope,

ਭਗਤੀ bhakti/bhagti/bhagtee is spelt with a bihari, that is why you hear it clearly.

 

with a siharee it becomes

ਭਗਤਿ bhagat(i)/ bhakt(i)

there will still be some change in pronouncing the akhar at the end, than without the siharee.

With the siharee you don't hear it clearly within the context you are talking about.

The word is ਭਗਤਿ , ਭਗਤੀ is either another form of the word or has an biharee for grammatical reasons.  

Bhagti without the Sihari is Bhagat, and refers to a person, which is a different form of the word to Bhagti which refers to the practice/concept.  Pronouncing Bhagti as Bhagat is not right.

[ipledgeblue]

On 12/2/2020 at 8:54 PM, Guest guest said:

so why is the siharee clearly pronounced in 'SatiNaam'?

also- Praanpati in Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Bani- the siharee should be pronounced.  The word is Pati not Pat.

Even in Sat(i)naam, the sihari is faint, it's not clear like a bihari, it is not satee-naam is it now?!

On 12/5/2020 at 9:58 PM, Guest guest said:

The word is ਭਗਤਿ , ਭਗਤੀ is either another form of the word or has an biharee for grammatical reasons.  

Bhagti without the Sihari is Bhagat, and refers to a person, which is a different form of the word to Bhagti which refers to the practice/concept.  Pronouncing Bhagti as Bhagat is not right.

yes it's not right, but even the siharee makes a slight difference in pronunciation even if it is faint.

The sihari slightly extends the sound of a letter instead of going straight towards pronouncing the next letter! I reckon it makes a letter half a second longer or so in pronunciation.

 

[Guest guest]

the same word bhagti when used in normal everyday language, the 'i' is clearly pronounced, not 'subtle'.

look of some of Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Bani:

ਬਿਨ ਭਗਤਿ ਸਕਤਿ ਨਹੀ ਪਰਤ ਪਾਨ ॥

The bhagti and shakti words- the 'i' is clearly pronounced.  its not read 'bhakt' and 'shakt'.

Also, the word Praan Pati- the 'i' is clearly spoken.  Its not 'Praan Pat'.

On another token, I'm not sure why either you or anyone else pledges 'blue', since Guru Gobind Singh pretty famously exchanged his blue robes for white ones and then ripped the blue clothes to shreds. 

[ipledgeblue]

On 12/9/2020 at 10:29 PM, Guest guest said:

the same word bhagti when used in normal everyday language, the 'i' is clearly pronounced, not 'subtle'.

look of some of Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Bani:

ਬਿਨ ਭਗਤਿ ਸਕਤਿ ਨਹੀ ਪਰਤ ਪਾਨ ॥

The bhagti and shakti words- the 'i' is clearly pronounced.  its not read 'bhakt' and 'shakt'.

Also, the word Praan Pati- the 'i' is clearly spoken.  Its not 'Praan Pat'.

On another token, I'm not sure why either you or anyone else pledges 'blue', since Guru Gobind Singh pretty famously exchanged his blue robes for white ones and then ripped the blue clothes to shreds. 

whether they can be clearly heard or not, we both agree that they are indeed pronounced! However I think I still think that many people will not clearly hear the shabad with sihari.

 

And yes, I do pledge to the blue nishaan sahib!