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imran khan gives control of Kartarpur Gurdwara Sahib to Muslim body


shastarSingh
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 we do understand politics otherwise 84 wouldn't have happened and they wouldn't be destroying Sikhi and Punjab..they wouldn't be killing us

Just it all sucks how much suffering we have to go through ..and our basic rights are being stripped from us..

But we got to keep hope in Vaheguru and have faith ...

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34 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Khalsa Raj is only Khalsa Raj if done according to Gurmat. There is Gurmat and Manmat. Don't idealize the devils ways. 

How do you think power was seized during the times of the misls?

You seize on opportunities. 

Seizing on opportunities is not necessarily manmat. 

Building and going out there to create the apparatus that comes with creating Khalsa Raj is Gurmat. 

Being proactive rather than reactive is Gurmat.

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1 hour ago, Ranjeet01 said:

How do you think power was seized during the times of the misls?

You seize on opportunities. 

Seizing on opportunities is not necessarily manmat. 

Building and going out there to create the apparatus that comes with creating Khalsa Raj is Gurmat. 

Being proactive rather than reactive is Gurmat.

So let's talk more about that. How would you describe the ascension of the Khalsa around the time of the Gurus?

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55 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

So let's talk more about that. How would you describe the ascension of the Khalsa around the time of the Gurus?

The ascension happened when we took on the temporal element and combined it with the spiritual element and became sant-sipahis.

The adoption of the temporal side is when we became sant-sipahis rather than merely sants.

It made us more complete.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Khalsa Raj is only Khalsa Raj if done according to Gurmat. There is Gurmat and Manmat. Don't idealize the devils ways. 

Gurmat prescribes Sarbat da Bhalla, "For the Benefit of All."

Gurmat endorses the actions of the venerable Bhai Khanaiya, the Sikh who tended to his own side's opponents on the battlefield, nursing them back to health and allowing them to recover and rejoin the fight, rendering the efforts of his fellow Sikhs fruitless, no doubt costing Sikh warrior lives in the process. Manmat, according to Gurbani, is the opposite of the actions of Bhai Khanaiya, i.e. allowing the enemy to die.

So exactly how do we win this if the above is Gurmat, because unless I'm missing something, what Bhai Khanaiya did was undoubtedly Gurmat, but if every Sikh is expected to follow that example in similar situations, then there is simply no point in even waking up in the morning.

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1 hour ago, Ranjeet01 said:

The ascension happened when we took on the temporal element and combined it with the spiritual element and became sant-sipahis.

The adoption of the temporal side is when we became sant-sipahis rather than merely sants.

It made us more complete.

 

 

 

 

24 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Gurmat prescribes Sarbat da Bhalla, "For the Benefit of All."

Gurmat endorses the actions of the venerable Bhai Khanaiya, the Sikh who tended to his own side's opponents on the battlefield, nursing them back to health and allowing them to recover and rejoin the fight, rendering the efforts of his fellow Sikhs fruitless, no doubt costing Sikh warrior lives in the process. Manmat, according to Gurbani, is the opposite of the actions of Bhai Khanaiya, i.e. allowing the enemy to die.

So exactly how do we win this if the above is Gurmat, because unless I'm missing something, what Bhai Khanaiya did was undoubtedly Gurmat, but if every Sikh is expected to follow that example in similar situations, then there is simply no point in even waking up in the morning.

I feel like we are ignorant of some of the means and ways that the original forces surrounding the Gurus emanated and came together.  

I'm just more interested in that than being jealous of unscrupulous means and methods used by other groups. 

And if we adopt their ways it defeats the purpose. 

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29 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Gurmat prescribes Sarbat da Bhalla, "For the Benefit of All."

Gurmat endorses the actions of the venerable Bhai Khanaiya, the Sikh who tended to his own side's opponents on the battlefield, nursing them back to health and allowing them to recover and rejoin the fight, rendering the efforts of his fellow Sikhs fruitless, no doubt costing Sikh warrior lives in the process. Manmat, according to Gurbani, is the opposite of the actions of Bhai Khanaiya, i.e. allowing the enemy to die.

So exactly how do we win this if the above is Gurmat, because unless I'm missing something, what Bhai Khanaiya did was undoubtedly Gurmat, but if every Sikh is expected to follow that example in similar situations, then there is simply no point in even waking up in the morning.

Here is another example for GurjantGnostic. 

The Hindus used to have rules for warfare. They were only allowed to fight when it was daytime when it was light. Once it got dark, they put down their weapons and went back to camp and then fought next day.

This did not work when the invading muslims came because they did not follow those rules. They took advantage and attacked at night. 

When you come against a foe who does not follow your rules,  you are fighting at a disadvantage no matter how noble you are.

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4 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

 

I feel like we are ignorant of some of the means and ways that the original forces surrounding the Gurus emanated and came together.  

I'm just more interested in that than being jealous of unscrupulous means and methods used by other groups. 

And if we adopt their ways it defeats the purpose. 

It's not about being jealous of their unscrupulous methods.

It is understanding their unscrupulous methods and countering them.

Even better still is to put things in place to make it difficult for those unscrupulous methods to transpire in the first place.

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54 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

When you come against a foe who does not follow your rules,  you are fighting at a disadvantage no matter how noble you are.

The rules of engagement should only be adhered to when both sides are playing the same game. Two sides, two sets of rules, and two games just isn't doable, and that's putting it politely. 

If you want spiritual liberation through adherence to a lofty, heavenly moral and ethical framework, I'd argue the battlefield is not a place for that particular individual. 

ONLY in times of moral and ethical purity -- whereby both sides enthusiastically embrace a code of conduct regardless of the enmity between the two sides -- does such conduct come close to being enacted as something that's non-negotiable. Per Vedic mythology, the war where these values were abandoned was the battle of the Mahabharata! That was a war between family members! 

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