Ancient Punjab

[Not2Cool2Argue]

11 hours ago, puzzled said:

Even thus, O Salya, the young and old, among the inhabitants of Sakala, intoxicated with spirits, sing and cry. How can virtue be met with among such a people ? Thou shouldst know this. I must, however, speak again to thee about what another Brahmana had said unto us in the Kuru court, There where forests of Pilus stand, and those five rivers flow, viz., the Satadru, the Vipasa, the ravati, the Chandrabhaga, and the Vitasa and which have the Sindhu for their sixth, there in those regions removed from the Himavat, are the countries called by the name of the Arattas. Those regions are without virtue and religion. No one should go thither.
 

Can you tell me the source interested in reading more. 

[MisterrSingh]

18 hours ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

Can you tell me the source interested in reading more. 

+1. Sounds very interesting. This period seems like such a laugh. Everyone buzzing and chilling like it's one big party.

[puzzled]

I was actually going through an old usb stick and found these quotes saved on it lol, must of read them somewhere found them interesting and copy and pasted them. I'm guessing its probably from the Vedas or Mahabharat .... 

[MisterrSingh]

3 minutes ago, puzzled said:

I was actually going through an old usb stick and found these quotes saved on it lol, must of read them somewhere found them interesting and copy and pasted them. I'm guessing its probably from the Vedas or Mahabharat .... 

Yes, the term "Grandsire" is a title that is frequently used in reference to Bhishma, the Brahmchari great-uncle of the Pandavas and the Kauravas, so I'm assuming it's from the Mahabharata, but the text seems like supplementary material rather than anything from the traditional narrative. It's very interesting that the fundamental nature of the people of that part of India is identifiable even to us today despite the latter civilising impact of Sikhi.  

[puzzled]

I was thinking about this yesterday. There is absolutely no difference between how people living there were behaving 2000 years ago and how the people currently living there and the diaspora behave today. Punjab has seen so many Sants, Peers and Gurus come and go, but it seems the people of the land just pick up the same habit again and again. Our neighbours on the other side of the border are just as bad with the whole Mujra culture and alcohol/opium addictions, one could argue they are even worse! 

Some of the earliest writings in the Punjabi language were written by the Nath Yogis, they were spiritual writings. Soon after that great Sufi Saints like Bhagat Farid ji and countless more came. Then the saints from the Bhagti movement and then our Gurus, but everyone is still behaving the same! 

Just back in the 80s when 1000s of Sikhs were being killed singer like Chamkila was at the height of his career! 

Go back to the partition, then we all know what some Sikh men were getting up to back then! Was watching a Youtube video about the partition, a Sikh bibi was being interviewed who was actually born a Muslim but she got kidnapped by Sikhs and one of them married her and she became a Sikh. She's from Hoshiarpur and she said just in the surrounding area of the pind she got married into she said between 2000-3000 Muslim girls were kidnapped, half of them were sent back later while half of them were hidden from the army by their kidnappers. These were Sikhs with joode and dharis! 

Go back to the Sikh empire and, well, we all know what they were getting up to! 

Go back to Guru Gobind Singh Jis time and Guru Ji narrates stories set in Anandpur Sahib in Charitropakhyan, these things were obviously happening at Anandpur Sahib and that's why Guru ji wrote about them. During Guru Gobind Singh Jis time there also the sakhi of Bhai Joga Singh of Peshawar, who was given a hukkam to leave Peshawar and go straight to Anandpur Sahib and visit Guru ji and on his way he got distracted and decided to visit a prostitute, but was obviously saved. so Singh was considering visiting a prostitute while Guru ji was walking the earth! How many more Singhs did the same thing as Bhai Joga back then? 

So even Sikhs ( proper Sikhs with Kes and Dhara, including their womenfolk) have pretty much been getting up to all sort throughout our history. 

Despite us having so many Shaheeds throughout our history, it would be delusional to think all Sikhs were like that. imo the vast majority were not ? .... 

[Kaurr]

5 hours ago, puzzled said:

Just back in the 80s when 1000s of Sikhs were being killed the singer Chamkila was at the height of his career!

Really? I heard that he had beef with them, that's it. 

 

5 hours ago, puzzled said:

Go back to the Sikh empire and, well, we all know what they were getting up to! 

I don't interpret.

[Ranjeet01]

10 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Yes, the term "Grandsire" is a title that is frequently used in reference to Bhishma, the Brahmchari great-uncle of the Pandavas and the Kauravas, so I'm assuming it's from the Mahabharata, but the text seems like supplementary material rather than anything from the traditional narrative. It's very interesting that the fundamental nature of the people of that part of India is identifiable even to us today despite the latter civilising impact of Sikhi.  

Bhishma! If only his dad put his foot down with wife no2's father.

He would be king and he would still be called Dev Vrat.

[MisterrSingh]

1 hour ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Bhishma! If only his dad put his foot down with wife no2's father.

He would be king and he would still be called Dev Vrat.

He was a man of integrity but he had a few fatal blind-spots that contributed to disaster for his entire clan.

He shouldn't have indulged his father's juvenile pining for Satyavati. If his father was determined to marry her, the fisherman father should've been straightened out. The guy was making demands that he had no business to make.

Another of his major mistakes was the kidnapping of the three sisters. That event eventually, indirectly, lead to his own death.

I get the impression he hid behind dharma and duty instead of making a difficult decision. As a person gets older and experiences more of life, one begins to see the flaws in these types of otherwise magnificent men. 

[Ranjeet01]

17 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

He was a man of integrity but he had a few fatal blind-spots that contributed to disaster for his entire clan.

He shouldn't have indulged his father's juvenile pining for Satyavati. If his father was determined to marry her, the fisherman father should've been straightened out. The guy was making demands that he had no business to make.

Another of his major mistakes was the kidnapping of the three sisters. That event eventually, indirectly, lead to his own death.

I get the impression he hid behind dharma and duty instead of making a difficult decision. As a person gets older and experiences more of life, one begins to see the flaws in these types of otherwise magnificent men. 

If I recall, one of the sisters was re-incarnated as the Kauravas uncle.

When he was about to meet his ending, I remember Krishna told the Pandava's to get advice to running a kingdom from Bhishma rather than himself.

It was his flaws as an imperfect person that gave certain insights that an avatar (who never make mistakes) cannot give.

[MisterrSingh]

3 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

It was his flaws as an imperfect person that gave certain insights that an avatar (who never make mistakes) cannot give.

An avatar sees the totality of the situation. All paths and all outcomes. What may seem mysterious, illogical and baseless to a man is clarity to an avatar, which is where you get moments when even avatars are questioned or deserted by those close to them. The 40 Mukhte is a prime example of this. Blind faith is expected  of the follower in those situations, but that's easier said than done.