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23 hours ago, puzzled said:

y 1760-ish most of Punjab was ruled under the Sikh misls who were mainly jatts. Bhangis(Dhillon), Kanheya(Sandhus), Singhia(Dhaliwals) etc ..  They also held the Afghans at bay. 

You forget to mention Bir Singh Ranghretta, who prior to the Misl period, ie Dal Khalsa, commanded one of 5 Dal's of the Dal Khalsa. What became of him? By the way, isn't it interesting that the original poster didn't suggest that we should appeal to so-called lower strata's of Hindu society to consider Sikhi as a path? What does that tell us?

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2 minutes ago, DailyMail said:

You forget to mention Bir Singh Ranghretta, who prior to the Misl period, ie Dal Khalsa, commanded one of 5 Dal's of the Dal Khalsa. What became of him? By the way, isn't it interesting that the original poster didn't suggest that we should appeal to lower strata's of Hindu society to consider Sikhi as a path? What does that tell us?

Yeah I also "forget" to mention Jassa Singh Aluwawalia, Nawab Kapur Singh Virk, Baba Bhagel Singh etc and your point is?     as you already very well know, I was responding to Ranjit on how Jatts refused to submit to Bahmans which was their key to success and this rebellion resulted in Jatts ruling most of Punjab from the 1760s,  now why would I talk about anyone else if the discussion is about Jatt rebellion against Bamhans? 

Why would the original poster talk about other castes when the video is about a Hindu Jatt convert, Manoj Singh, talking about how Sikhi would be a great solution for his community? 

What does that tell us? well it tells your a bit off topic on this thread. 

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23 hours ago, puzzled said:

Yeah that was the key to success, Jats refused to accept a position which would of naturally been near the bottom and rebelled against the Bamhans, and there wasn't much Bamhans could of done. The fact that Punjab had more of a flexible biradari system rather than the traditional Varna system and order also probably helped Jatts. Punjabi Gujjars are another group which refused to be pushed around by Bamhans.

By 1760-ish most of Punjab was ruled under the Sikh misls who were mainly jatts. Bhangis(Dhillon), Kanheya(Sandhus), Singhia(Dhaliwals) etc ..  They also held the Afghans at bay. 

It's a shame that most are rather sloppy now than rebellious, the 80s and 90s was the last time we saw any major rebellion. 

 

Rajputs pretty much went with whoever the ruling party was.

 

 

Yet you neglected to mention misls that weren't led by jatts (Ahluwalia, Ramgarhia, some also say that the Shukerchakia chieftains were not jatt)

You also neglected to name the traitorous Phulkian "misl" that was led by jatts. They can now stake claim to multiple centuries worth of traitorous behavior. The least you could do is not forget them.

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, puzzled said:

Yeah I also "forget" to mention Jassa Singh Aluwawalia, Nawab Kapur Singh Virk, Baba Bhagel Singh etc and your point is?     as you already very well know, I was responding to Ranjit on how Jatts refused to submit to Bahmans which was their key to success and this rebellion resulted in Jatts ruling most of Punjab from the 1760s,  now why would I talk about anyone else if the discussion is about Jatt rebellion against Bamhans? 

Why would the original poster talk about other castes when the video is about a Hindu Jatt convert, Manoj Singh, talking about how Sikhi would be a great solution for his community? 

What does that tell us? well it tells your a bit off topic on this thread. 

 

 

Jatts did a really good job submitting to Brahmins from the 1980s up to and including the present day

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5 minutes ago, californiasardar1 said:

 

Yet you neglected to mention misls that weren't led by jatts (Ahluwalia, Ramgarhia, some also say that the Shukerchakia chieftains were not jatt)

You also neglected to name the traitorous Phulkian "misl" that was led by jatts. They can now stake claim to multiple centuries worth of traitorous behavior. The least you could do is not forget them.

 

 

 

Why would i mention all those misls when the discussion is about jatts rebelling against Bamhans and rise to power ?

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Just now, puzzled said:

They also did a good job in the Khaku lehr 

For every jatt "kharku" there were dozens of jatts helping the brahmin-controlled state hunt down the "karkus"

 

Face it. At best, there is nothing that makes jatts stand out in the positive ways that you want to pretend they do. At worst, jatts have done more damage to Sikhi than any group of people.

 

I'm a jatt myself, but I can't deny the fact that 99% of jatts are clowns who have made a complete mockery out of Sikhi and who do not possess any of the characteristics (anakh, honesty, trustworthyness, bravery etc.) that they like to beat their chests and pretend they do.

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1 minute ago, californiasardar1 said:

For every jatt "kharku" there were dozens of jatts helping the brahmin-controlled state hunt down the "karkus"

 

Face it. At best, there is nothing that makes jatts stand out in the positive ways that you want to pretend they do. At worst, jatts have done more damage to Sikhi than any group of people.

 

I'm a jatt myself, but I can't deny the fact that 99% of jatts are clowns who have made a complete mockery out of Sikhi and who do not possess any of the characteristics (anakh, honesty, trustworthyness, bravery etc.) that they like to beat their chests and pretend they do.

ummm ok   and this relates to the video posted by OP how? 

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Admin might as well freeze the comment section because some people seem to have a problem with this thread and it appears they want to spiral the thread into something else ...

The video posted is great and Manoj Singh is doing a great job, but for some bizarre reason certain people don't seem to be too happy about it, its best if the comment section on this thread is frozen .... 

And lets home some Haryanvi Jaat considering Sikhi doesn't stumble upon the last few comments! 

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12 minutes ago, californiasardar1 said:

For every jatt "kharku" there were dozens of jatts helping the brahmin-controlled state hunt down the "karkus"

 

Face it. At best, there is nothing that makes jatts stand out in the positive ways that you want to pretend they do. At worst, jatts have done more damage to Sikhi than any group of people.

 

I'm a jatt myself, but I can't deny the fact that 99% of jatts are clowns who have made a complete mockery out of Sikhi and who do not possess any of the characteristics (anakh, honesty, trustworthyness, bravery etc.) that they like to beat their chests and pretend they do.

You have to be careful of swinging to the extremes. While self praise leads to damaging haumai, self loathing leads to demorlization. Give credit where it's due. Imagine the sikh jatts of today had they not converted to Sikhi. What would the demographics of sikhs be today? We would be an even smaller trader/artisan class minority living under hindu and muslim jatts.

This thread wasn't about what you're alluding to anyway.

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34 minutes ago, californiasardar1 said:

 

Yet you neglected to mention misls that weren't led by jatts (Ahluwalia, Ramgarhia, some also say that the Shukerchakia chieftains were not jatt)

You also neglected to name the traitorous Phulkian "misl" that was led by jatts. They can now stake claim to multiple centuries worth of traitorous behavior. The least you could do is not forget them.

 

 

 

Thanks californiasardar1.

The problem is Puzzled, and maybe puzzled is more suited to you than you realise, but the problem is, you're pushing the same narrative that other lazy observers have pushed for the past few decades at the expense of truth

Who was responsible for the diminished Rangrehtta Dal? I give you a clue...it's the same chaps that californiasardar1 mentioned in regards to Phulkian "misl".

One of these days Puzzled, you will pick up a history book and actually study who stood shoulder to shoulder with Guru Gobind Singh, who was given a kalgi at Chamkaur, which Dal went AWOL in the mid-eighteenth century despite commanding control posts at Peshawar and the kept the quarrelsome Pathans at bay? 

For the vast majority of the time, the misls that you mention spent more time fighting each other and actually, the Bhangi's took Lahore strategically (nothing wrong with that by the way) and crucially not due to superior military prowess. 

Who formed the majority of the Nishaanvali misl or Dallewalia misl not to mention formed a significant proportion of the Sukerchakia misl?

All I can say is, isn't it fascinating that those communities who have a 5 century history of sacrifice for Sikhi are now told to live in "chamaarlis", prevented from taking Amrit from the same thaal as jats but hey, lets preach to jaats from Haryana in the hope that Sajjan Kumar's clan, a chap who was responsible for a genocide in Delhi, embrace Sikhi.

 

Wonderful. Absolutely fabulous. 

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2 minutes ago, puzzled said:

Whenever you mention the dreaded J word on this forum the thread just turns volatile. 

It comes back to our inability to see the broader picture as a whole community. We push these internal fueds, whether rooted in jathas or caste, and miss out completely outward growth opportunities.

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7 minutes ago, puzzled said:

Whenever you mention the dreaded J word on this forum the thread just turns volatile. 

Puzzled, please put the violin away, it doesn't suit you. Personally, mention the dreaded J word all you like - but as long as you mention the M word, the R word, the C word, the T word, the A word....you get the drift. For far too long, an inaccurate one-sided narrative has been propagated and its all BS. Primary sources must be consulted.

Meanwhile, lets not forget, why these Jaats ended up in an Indian State called Haryana in the first instance. Ever heard of the Punjabi Suba? In the swinging sixties. Anyway, what was the position of these Jaats on their mother tongue? 

Let's all stop this myopia and engage in constructive, evidence-based debate, not "Jat this, Jat that" as if we're at a 1980's daytime bhangra gig in Hammersmith.  This forum is better than that. 

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4 minutes ago, DailyMail said:

Puzzled, please put the violin away, it doesn't suit you. Personally, mention the dreaded J word all you like - but as long as you mention the M word, the R word, the C word, the T word, the A word....you get the drift. For far too long, an inaccurate one-sided narrative has been propagated and its all BS. Primary sources must be consulted.

Meanwhile, lets not forget, why these Jaats ended up in an Indian State called Haryana in the first instance. Ever heard of the Punjabi Suba? In the swinging sixties. Anyway, what was the position of these Jaats on their mother tongue? 

Let's all stop this myopia and engage in constructive, evidence-based debate, not "Jat this, Jat that" as if we're at a 1980's daytime bhangra gig in Hammersmith.  This forum is better than that. 

Not quite sure how you want me to reply to that, what do you want me to say? do you want me to apologize ?    Its all a bit confusing and hilarious at the same

Since when has Punjabi been the mother tongue of Haryanvis, have you even been Haryana and heard what they speak there. 

Really confused what your issue is with this thread?  what is it that upset you? what particular comment upset you?  what was it? 

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