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On 12/22/2020 at 12:50 AM, ipledgeblue said:

Please make sure to not skip any lines before Arril when reading Benti Chaupai, no matter what it says in SGPC maryada!

agreed

I can sort of understand if they don't include arril and chaupaee, but cutting off kabiyo baach shabad itself is pretty manmat

the prior jatheedar of akaal thakt-vedanti-said its not neccesary and not part of a ardaas theme that the benti chapai is but in the guru sahib states "dukh na tisai biaapat koee", making the dava that one the blessings attained by the bani will not let suffering touch the sikh 

I think it was teja bhausaria who got the last two lines cut due to being offended by "kirpaa karee ham par JAGMAATAA" 

 

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it wouldn't make sense as salok from Japji is always referred to as Mahala 1 not 2, the detractors are again nibbling away at our faith

Got a question about showering before doing nitnem. Rather then having a shower can we just brush our teeth and wash our face, hands and feet instead?  I normally get up between 5am-5:45am in the

agreed I can sort of understand if they don't include arril and chaupaee, but cutting off kabiyo baach shabad itself is pretty manmat the prior jatheedar of akaal thakt-vedanti-said its not

On 12/4/2020 at 12:31 AM, Khalistan88 said:

Hey everyone, I'm new to this site and this is my first post. I recently got into Sikhi and for the last 4 months, I have been so into reading history and prayer as well. What I don't understand is different websites. Panj bani paath is what I don't understand. Are the five...3 in morning 1 evening 1 at night. Or is there 5 in the morning and then 1 in evening and 1 at night. 2 or 3 websites contradict each other. Which ones do we have to read. I'm so confused. Please don't laugh or judge me. 

 

What are the 5 and when do you do them? 

 

Some say 3 in morning and some say 5. Is 5 all in morning or are the 5 altogether in total throughout the day? 

Is it:

Japji sahib, Jaap sahib, tav-prasad savaiye in morning and then rehras and kirtan sohila (are these the 5?) 

 

Or is it:

 

Japji sahib, Jaap sahib, tav-prasad savaiye AND chaupai sahib and anand sahib in morning (are these the 5?) And then rehras and kirtan sohila in the evening time. 

 

 

Thank you 

the latter waheguru ji

I used to think three were for all sikhs and the five for amritdhari sikhs but I may be mistaken as I havent read that rehit maryada in years now 

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On 5/4/2021 at 6:48 PM, NaamTiharoJoJape said:

agreed

I can sort of understand if they don't include arril and chaupaee, but cutting off kabiyo baach shabad itself is pretty manmat

the prior jatheedar of akaal thakt-vedanti-said its not neccesary and not part of a ardaas theme that the benti chapai is but in the guru sahib states "dukh na tisai biaapat koee", making the dava that one the blessings attained by the bani will not let suffering touch the sikh 

I think it was teja bhausaria who got the last two lines cut due to being offended by "kirpaa karee ham par JAGMAATAA" 

 

yeh cutting the bani off IS MANMAT! However the reason. say to read ARRIL is because mahapurash and gursikhs say that ARRIL must be read as well, and therefore I will say the same thing!

Teja Bhasauria got benti chaupai cut, he collaborated with his student to force harmandir sahib sangat into reading the cut version during Sodar Rehras, and this now continues to this day. He went crazy, started printing Guru Granth Sahib saroop WITHOUT bhagat bani, and changed sri bhagauti ji from ardass into sri satnam ji. BHASAURIA'S SON wrote a book trying to say the rest of the pauris in benti chaupai are actually a different bani.

What happened next, BHASAURIA GOT EXCOMMUNICATED! I can't believe there are still sikhs justifying cutting lines from benti chaupai, I even saw on the jatha website they are justifying this by I paraphrase: "follow the decision of the panth that Chaupai Sahib ends at “Dusht Dokh Tai Leho Bachaaee” for the reasons outlined above."

What manmatti nonsense, MANMATT! We should follow the decision of gursikhs and mahapurakhs, who tell us to read arril as well, we can trust them to read bani as Guru ji wanted us to. Instead of organisations and jathas making excuses of "BEING PANTHIC".  MANMATT NONSENSE!

 

EDIT without bhagat bani

 
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10 hours ago, ipledgeblue said:

yeh cutting the bani off IS MANMAT! However the reason. say to read ARRIL is because mahapurash and gursikhs say that ARRIL must be read as well, and therefore I will say the same thing!

Teja Bhasauria got benti chaupai cut, he collaborated with his student to force harmandir sahib sangat into reading the cut version during Sodar Rehras, and this now continues to this day. He went crazy, started printing Guru Granth Sahib saroop with bhagat bani, and changed sri bhagauti ji from ardass into sri satnam ji. BHASAURIA'S SON wrote a book trying to say the rest of the pauris in benti chaupai are actually a different bani.

What happened next, HE GOT EXCOMMUNICATED! I can't believe there are still sikhs justifying cutting lines from benti chaupai, I even saw on the jatha website they are justifying this by I paraphrase: "follow the decision of the panth that Chaupai Sahib ends at “Dusht Dokh Tai Leho Bachaaee” for the reasons outlined above."

What manmatti nonsense, MANMATT! We should follow the decision of gursikhs and mahapurakhs, who tell us to read arril as well, we can trust them to read bani as Guru ji wanted us to. Instead of organisations and jathas making excuses of "BEING PANTHIC".  MANMATT NONSENSE!

technically kabiyo baach benti, is the benti chaupai, as indicated from the name

anything beyond this "benti" chaupaee (such as rest of charitropakhyan or additional dasam bani) I would consider to be part of the longer "chaupaee sahib" which can be arbitrary upto the person's sharda and devotion 

but anyone can differ with this, this is just how I have viewed things from beginning 

the two cut off lines are the main issue in my opinion, because that is like reading japji sahib without the salok and 38th pauree, or anand sahib upto 37th pauree, or leaving out last two chhand of jaap sahib, last tuk of every astpadee in sukhmani sahib, etc. you get the point 

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18 hours ago, NaamTiharoJoJape said:

technically kabiyo baach benti, is the benti chaupai, as indicated from the name

anything beyond this "benti" chaupaee (such as rest of charitropakhyan or additional dasam bani) I would consider to be part of the longer "chaupaee sahib" which can be arbitrary upto the person's sharda and devotion 

but anyone can differ with this, this is just how I have viewed things from beginning 

the two cut off lines are the main issue in my opinion, because that is like reading japji sahib without the salok and 38th pauree, or anand sahib upto 37th pauree, or leaving out last two chhand of jaap sahib, last tuk of every astpadee in sukhmani sahib, etc. you get the point 

ok fair enough, but yeh cutting out those lines from benti chaupai is MANMATT, how can jathas and committees justify it, the reasons they give are so lame and stupid!

Salok of Japji Sahib is actually written by Guru Angad Dev ji, found that out recently.

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25 minutes ago, ipledgeblue said:

Salok of Japji Sahib is actually written by Guru Angad Dev ji, found that out recently.

Interesting, where did u hear that from?

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3 hours ago, intrigued said:

Interesting, where did u hear that from?

I thought everyone knew

I forgot which source, but I read it somewhere as a kid 

At the moment, I can only recount bhai jagraj singh of BoS saying this a couples times, somewhere in his panj bania lecture or the japji sahib katha

sikhs were asking guru maharaj for a morning bani, so guru maharaj blessed them with japji (I believe some were doing asa di vaar, at least as much was pargat by then, in addition as well but I may be wrong) 

the sewa of compiling shabads into a japuji sahib was entrusted to bhai lehna (guru angad)

at the time of gurgaddi divas of guru angad dev ji maharaj, he composed the salok to complete japji sahib (as the maha mantar was given by akaal purakh when guru nanak went to sach khand abode of paarbrahm kartar and guru nanak replied with the rest of mool mantar; I dont know some may differ with me and say brahmgyani and mahapursh are always in the STATE of sach khand but you guys get what I am trying to convey)  

that is all I can recall for now but I will try to do more khoj onto this topic

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4 hours ago, ipledgeblue said:

ok fair enough, but yeh cutting out those lines from benti chaupai is MANMATT, how can jathas and committees justify it, the reasons they give are so lame and stupid!

Salok of Japji Sahib is actually written by Guru Angad Dev ji, found that out recently.

yeah

I once used that point in a argument with some osho bhagat (from a sikh family) who said derogatory remarks on the other gurus, claiming guru nanak was the only enlightened one and that the rest *diluted* and corrupted guru nanak's message enshrined in japji sahib and the rest were all succeptible to emotions and panj chor (referred to "nis pyare seo neho" to say guru angad was attached to the mortal frame of guru nanak and was depressed when guru nanak passed away but I tried giving him a more accurate translation of the words)

the guy kept on copying and pasting the same essay on mahantaa of sri japuji sahib in comments so I confronted him if he believed in japji sahib and then he got more osho type philosophical, basically proving he didnt believe in amrit bani but yeah shocker, the very japji he was praising had its salok composed by guru angad who he was belittling    

it all started from him asking whether he was a sikh or a nanakpanthi (neither in my opinion, he was parroting his guru osho's words and I woouldnt be surprised that if osho had flipped his views on guru nanak this guy now would have been slandering guru nanak as well), i remember it pissed me off for the two days we went back and forth lmaoo 

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On 12/4/2020 at 7:25 PM, Arsh1469 said:

They say 3 because many people have to go to work so it is okay if they read 3 bani.

that would be a dhil  in rehit if you used that excuse , didn't Singhs in Guru ji's time work early in the mornings (in fields and business)? Of course they did and they did full baniaan , the old nitnem always includes Anand Sahib because there is NO time in which a sikh does prayer during that Anand Sahib doesn't get read either in whole or part  . Guru ji states in hukhamnama that if one eats without reciting Japji Sahib and Jaap Saib they will be reborn as worm of excrement.

By those two things we know any nonamritdhari should do Japji sahib Jaap Sahib and Anand Sahib then Sodar rehras and kirtan Sohila  as their basic nitnem aprt from naam abhiaas.

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Just now, intrigued said:

This thread says something like there was an extra pauri that was written by Guru Angad Dev Ji in Japji Sahib; no mention on the salok - https://www.sikhawareness.com/topic/20423-extra-pauri-of-japji-sahib-udaasi/

it wouldn't make sense as salok from Japji is always referred to as Mahala 1 not 2, the detractors are again nibbling away at our faith

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3 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

it wouldn't make sense as salok from Japji is always referred to as Mahala 1 not 2, the detractors are again nibbling away at our faith

Any reference to it being referred to as mahalia 1 veerji? 

I recently took a look at sikhiwiki page on guru angads bani and angel 8, salok japuji is vrajimaan 

Although I see some incoherence as some versions of sakhi state bhai Jodha recited asa di vaar and japji every morning when bhai lehna (guru angad) heard him and began yearning for shabad and guru 

But lots of people agree that guru angad/bhai lehna in his 6 or 7 years of sewa at kartarpur, was entrusted with duty of complaining a morning bani and he took his time taking authentic dhur ki bani 

Some say this is why japji is rough and uneven in terms of poetic metre, because guru angad left it completely unchanged without metre and was straight mukhvaak and flowing from guru nanak dev ji maharaj 

Something like that lol 

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13 hours ago, NaamTiharoJoJape said:

Any reference to it being referred to as mahalia 1 veerji? 

I recently took a look at sikhiwiki page on guru angads bani and angel 8, salok japuji is vrajimaan 

Although I see some incoherence as some versions of sakhi state bhai Jodha recited asa di vaar and japji every morning when bhai lehna (guru angad) heard him and began yearning for shabad and guru 

But lots of people agree that guru angad/bhai lehna in his 6 or 7 years of sewa at kartarpur, was entrusted with duty of complaining a morning bani and he took his time taking authentic dhur ki bani 

Some say this is why japji is rough and uneven in terms of poetic metre, because guru angad left it completely unchanged without metre and was straight mukhvaak and flowing from guru nanak dev ji maharaj 

Something like that lol 

sikiwiki is run by 3HO who are destroying sikhi's roop by their beadbhi of Gurbani and rehit , if you look for the subject matter the top 15 of pages entries are all from either Yogi's taught people , sikhnet, sikiwiki, religionwiki  or Hindi pushing monay who do not follow the Guru on a daily basis . I have heard them throwing shade on Guru Arjan Dev ji by suggesting that Guru ji was 'stuck' composing sukhmani Sahib and only being able to continue by being given Gurbani by Sri Chand ji . It is this dripdrip undermining of our sakhiaan/ithihaas that creates a diminishing of Guru ji in our youth's minds . Truth was Guru ji gave respect to Sri Chand as Son of Guru Nanak Dev ji and allowed him to show humility in front of Guru ji Bani.
Jagraj Singh ji was married to a 3HO trained sikh  and may have been influenced to accept some slight changes to the sakhi

in the following pages they just mention that Guru Angad Dev ji repeats Salok in one of his Compostions Majh ki Vaar
http://sikhlink.com/free-japji-sahib 

we all know that Guru Nanak DEv ji wrote gurbani down as it was revealed as he was asked to consult the pothi he carried to tell who was better hindu or muslim , so it seems strange that no Gursikh has said this thing about Salok prior to this sikiwiki entry. Sure Guru ji may have given sewa of assembling shabads into an order but they were complete prior. Whoever tried suggesting Gurbani of Japji Sahib is rough needs to calm down , it is the central thesis of sikhi , the roadmap of sikh development. Gursikhs taught me mool mantar is the exposistion of ik , and Japji Sahib of Mool Mantar then rest of Guru Granth Sahib ji of Japji Sahib .

 

 

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14 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

sikiwiki is run by 3HO who are destroying sikhi's roop by their beadbhi of Gurbani and rehit , if you look for the subject matter the top 15 of pages entries are all from either Yogi's taught people , sikhnet, sikiwiki, religionwiki  or Hindi pushing monay who do not follow the Guru on a daily basis . I have heard them throwing shade on Guru Arjan Dev ji by suggesting that Guru ji was 'stuck' composing sukhmani Sahib and only being able to continue by being given Gurbani by Sri Chand ji . It is this dripdrip undermining of our sakhiaan/ithihaas that creates a diminishing of Guru ji in our youth's minds . Truth was Guru ji gave respect to Sri Chand as Son of Guru Nanak Dev ji and allowed him to show humility in front of Guru ji Bani.
Jagraj Singh ji was married to a 3HO trained sikh  and may have been influenced to accept some slight changes to the sakhi

in the following pages they just mention that Guru Angad Dev ji repeats Salok in one of his Compostions Majh ki Vaar
http://sikhlink.com/free-japji-sahib 

we all know that Guru Nanak DEv ji wrote gurbani down as it was revealed as he was asked to consult the pothi he carried to tell who was better hindu or muslim , so it seems strange that no Gursikh has said this thing about Salok prior to this sikiwiki entry. Sure Guru ji may have given sewa of assembling shabads into an order but they were complete prior. Whoever tried suggesting Gurbani of Japji Sahib is rough needs to calm down , it is the central thesis of sikhi , the roadmap of sikh development. Gursikhs taught me mool mantar is the exposistion of ik , and Japji Sahib of Mool Mantar then rest of Guru Granth Sahib ji of Japji Sahib .

 

 

never heard of guru sahib being stuck composing sukhmani sahib, that is pure garbage of a thought as if they just sat down to write stuff according to what they wanted, dhur ki bani comes from paarbrahm kartar 

nobody said japji sahib is rough, its just different in terms of metre according to some folks

that thing you said about mool mantar being exposition of ik oankaar, and japji sahib of mool mantar, etc., that same thing was preached by bhajan yogi (I agree with him even if I am not a fan of his character) 

its not just sikhiwiki, that was just an example and I have heard both sides on several websites and sikhnet and sikhdharma, the hubs of 3HO, actually ascribe the salok to guru nanak 

furthermore, there is a long list of references on sikhiwiki page on guru angad dev ji that you can check, and sikhiwiki references its page on guru angad's bani to this website by some harpreet singh... guruangaddev (google.com)

in all honesty, all of gurbani in guru granth sahib is in ekaagarta and ekta, as all guru sahiban at all times were fully jaani-jaan and gianee of all of the bani but different gurus did prakash of certain bani at certain times throughout the course of two centuries, this argument over japji sahib salok makes no difference and nobody needs to get offended but I can you get me some references to it being referred to as mahala 1, that would be helpful jio 

the link you sent me was very helpful, Sri Granth: Sri Guru Granth Sahib

the salok is ascribed within guru maharaj's saroop, vrajman in majh ki vaar, as mehala 2; hence I find it more plausible that salok is of sri guru angad dev ji 

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