Gurdwara is a sacred place

[Guest guest]

Hi

I just want to put out a reminder that all Gurdware are sacred places.  Please remember that when visiting any Gurdwara.  I think people are getting a bit of a lax attitude.

1.  If you are going, try your best to dress cleanly and smartly, just like you would if you were going to any place you respect.  Also to dress in a respectful manner.  

2.  Before entering, remember to enter with a humble and clean heart/attitude, with respect for Guruji and God.  You should enter with you head bowed.

3.  Turn off your phone or put it on silent.  Keep silent and don't talk unless necessary.

4.  Don't look around or take note of other people.   Be polite and respectful.  Don't push in front of others.

5.  Don't talk whilst Gurbani or kirtan is going on unless it is necessary to do so.

6.  Keep quiet whilst eating langar also.

7. Treat the building, the furniture, the facilities etc with respect.

8. Don't judge others, be disturbed by other peoples behaviour or be concerned with people who do wrong or act disrespectfully.  Just concentrate on your own behaviour.

Any other good points you can think of please add them.

 

 

[MisterrSingh]

Totally agree. But I'd delete Point 8, because it completely undermines and contradicts what you've suggested we do in Points 1 to 7.

[ManpreetKaurr]

Hanji i think many people nowadays have forgot the true values and ethics in a gurdwara. Nowadays there a so many things happening in a gurdwara, like girls will be taking pictures and doing tik tok in the bathroom eventough it's in the gurdwara. They be talking nonsense and totally forget how to respect the king. I hope maharaj will do his kirpa and make everyone understand and make everyone learn on how to respect the gurdwara. 

[imhosingh]

I'd flip whats being said. How do people describe going to gurdwara? Going for darshan of Maharaj etc. Then compare that with the attitude people would have if they were going to see the 'queen', a political leader...their company boss.. lots of chumchas if invited to Buckingham palace would dress up in their finest and abide by 'house rules'..yet when it comes to seeing our real king...it's another story. When Maharaj are talking (hukumnamas being read etc...the sangat is chatting etc). Would they do that if the queen was there talking to a group? Nah..they'd go full chumcha and nod with interest. Personally, I think it comes down to education do you see the SGGS as a 'book' or a living embodiment of our Guru ji?

[Guest guest]

13 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Totally agree. But I'd delete Point 8, because it completely undermines and contradicts what you've suggested we do in Points 1 to 7.

i guess the point in 8 is not to get lost in moral policing, which could lead to negativity and distraction.  other people may not be nice if you tell them to keep quiet etc

[Guest guest]

2 hours ago, imhosingh said:

I'd flip whats being said. How do people describe going to gurdwara? Going for darshan of Maharaj etc. Then compare that with the attitude people would have if they were going to see the 'queen', a political leader...their company boss.. lots of chumchas if invited to Buckingham palace would dress up in their finest and abide by 'house rules'..yet when it comes to seeing our real king...it's another story. When Maharaj are talking (hukumnamas being read etc...the sangat is chatting etc). Would they do that if the queen was there talking to a group? Nah..they'd go full chumcha and nod with interest. Personally, I think it comes down to education do you see the SGGS as a 'book' or a living embodiment of our Guru ji?

that kind of faith- not every one has it and it can't be faked.  i guess they can have it in principle.  but it also just a sense of basic propriety and manners.

sadly i see Gurdwara too eager to invite politcal leaders and put saropas around their neck.  imo its so misguided.

[Guest jigsaw_puzzled-singh]

On 12/5/2020 at 10:17 PM, Guest guest said:

Hi

I just want to put out a reminder that all Gurdware are sacred places.  Please remember that when visiting any Gurdwara.  I think people are getting a bit of a lax attitude.

1.  If you are going, try your best to dress cleanly and smartly, just like you would if you were going to any place you respect.  Also to dress in a respectful manner.  

2.  Before entering, remember to enter with a humble and clean heart/attitude, with respect for Guruji and God.  You should enter with you head bowed.

3.  Turn off your phone or put it on silent.  Keep silent and don't talk unless necessary.

4.  Don't look around or take note of other people.   Be polite and respectful.  Don't push in front of others.

5.  Don't talk whilst Gurbani or kirtan is going on unless it is necessary to do so.

6.  Keep quiet whilst eating langar also.

7. Treat the building, the furniture, the facilities etc with respect.

8. Don't judge others, be disturbed by other peoples behaviour or be concerned with people who do wrong or act disrespectfully.  Just concentrate on your own behaviour.

Any other good points you can think of please add them.

 

 

Nothing wrong with you've said there. They're all good points. But....nothing is ever as black and white as that. You said people "are getting a lax attitude". That shows you are very young and don't actually have a grasp of what things used to be like and so are mistakingly imagining a utopia in your head of a sangat sitting in silence in unison. It's never been like that. Depends how far back in history you wanna go. If you go back to the beginning you'll find that the concept of a 'gurdwara' was set up as a dharmsala - where the weary could meet up and rest. Abroad, especially here in the UK, the first major Gurdwaras were set up as community centres for the IWA (Indian Workers Association). Indeed alot of the older Gurdwaras here in the UK still have the name Indian Workers Association in their terms of reference if you research them through the charity commission. Take the UK's main Gurdwara or example - Singh Sabha on Havelock Road, Southall. When my dad and grandad used to be regulars there back in the day the langar hall was a tent at the back and after ardas around 3 in the afternoon onwards the men would all open the whisky bottles and sit in the tent while the wives gossiped in the dar hall and the kids ran amok. What I'm saying is it's important to have an understanding of history, demographics and culture.  Your own personal circumstances may well lend themselves well to a gurdwara being a purely serene, quiet and spiritual place but for many, especially working class people working 2 or 3 jobs, it is the one place that, once a week, they get to meet and mingle with their community and find out what's going on. Cut them some slack

[Guest guest]

On 12/7/2020 at 2:55 PM, Guest jigsaw_puzzled-singh said:

Nothing wrong with you've said there. They're all good points. But....nothing is ever as black and white as that. You said people "are getting a lax attitude". That shows you are very young and don't actually have a grasp of what things used to be like and so are mistakingly imagining a utopia in your head of a sangat sitting in silence in unison. It's never been like that. Depends how far back in history you wanna go. If you go back to the beginning you'll find that the concept of a 'gurdwara' was set up as a dharmsala - where the weary could meet up and rest. Abroad, especially here in the UK, the first major Gurdwaras were set up as community centres for the IWA (Indian Workers Association). Indeed alot of the older Gurdwaras here in the UK still have the name Indian Workers Association in their terms of reference if you research them through the charity commission. Take the UK's main Gurdwara or example - Singh Sabha on Havelock Road, Southall. When my dad and grandad used to be regulars there back in the day the langar hall was a tent at the back and after ardas around 3 in the afternoon onwards the men would all open the whisky bottles and sit in the tent while the wives gossiped in the dar hall and the kids ran amok. What I'm saying is it's important to have an understanding of history, demographics and culture.  Your own personal circumstances may well lend themselves well to a gurdwara being a purely serene, quiet and spiritual place but for many, especially working class people working 2 or 3 jobs, it is the one place that, once a week, they get to meet and mingle with their community and find out what's going on. Cut them some slack

fyi- I'm 36, and yes i remember Gurdwaras being very silent and solemn places up until about the early 2000s- when academics and the media started getting involved in sikhi.  i can also remember than up until about 10 years ago, people sat in silence during Anand Karaj.  since the rise in commonality of mixed-race marriages, people started chatting during the ceremony.

Dharamsala- were for travellers (mainly holy people) to rest.  they weren't a canteen.  the closest thing we have to tradition is Harmandir Sahib- now look at the decorum in there.  do people sit around chatting in Darbar hall?

you're disgusting socialist idea that Gurdwara is a meetup for socialising is a fabrication of western academia.  if you're elders where sipping whisky in a Gurdwara that doesn't mean it was the norm or even correct.

  

 

 

[Guest jigsaw_puzzled-singh]

21 hours ago, Guest guest said:

fyi- I'm 36, and yes i remember Gurdwaras being very silent and solemn places up until about the early 2000s- when academics and the media started getting involved in sikhi.  i can also remember than up until about 10 years ago, people sat in silence during Anand Karaj.  since the rise in commonality of mixed-race marriages, people started chatting during the ceremony.

 

 

You're either lying through your teeth are you are genuinely deluded in a psychotic way if you think what you said there is fact.

Quote

if you're elders where sipping whisky in a Gurdwara that doesn't mean it was the norm or even correct

Nobody said it was the 'norm' and nobody said it was correct. If you knew how to read you would have noticed how I gave it as an example of how things used to be so much worse than they are today

Quote

you're disgusting socialist idea that Gurdwara is a meetup for socialising is a fabrication of western academia

I never said Gurdwaras exist as a meeting place. What I  did say was that you should become more tolerant and understanding of the life and circumstances of others. I said that you should understand that a lot of the sangat you meet in the Gurdwara have difficult and hard-working lives in which that Sunday in the gurdwara is the only opportunity they ever get to meet with and socialise with fellow sikhs. It's called empathy my dear guest. Now...take me. I'm just like you. I have the kind of job that affords me an easy life in which I can talk to and socialise with other Sikhs whenever I want - which means it's very easy for me to sit in total silence and not acknowledge or talk to anyone on Sunday at the gurdwara. But...unlike you...I have empathy for other people and the lives they lead. I understand how vital it is for their mental, physical and spiritual well-being to do on Sunday the thing they never get the opportunity to do, i.e meet with fellow Sikhs. If you truly want to get rid of ego I suggest you gain some empathy for your fellow man

[Guest guest]

On 12/10/2020 at 8:41 PM, Guest jigsaw_puzzled-singh said:

You're either lying through your teeth are you are genuinely deluded in a psychotic way if you think what you said there is fact.

Nobody said it was the 'norm' and nobody said it was correct. If you knew how to read you would have noticed how I gave it as an example of how things used to be so much worse than they are today

I never said Gurdwaras exist as a meeting place. What I  did say was that you should become more tolerant and understanding of the life and circumstances of others. I said that you should understand that a lot of the sangat you meet in the Gurdwara have difficult and hard-working lives in which that Sunday in the gurdwara is the only opportunity they ever get to meet with and socialise with fellow sikhs. It's called empathy my dear guest. Now...take me. I'm just like you. I have the kind of job that affords me an easy life in which I can talk to and socialise with other Sikhs whenever I want - which means it's very easy for me to sit in total silence and not acknowledge or talk to anyone on Sunday at the gurdwara. But...unlike you...I have empathy for other people and the lives they lead. I understand how vital it is for their mental, physical and spiritual well-being to do on Sunday the thing they never get the opportunity to do, i.e meet with fellow Sikhs. If you truly want to get rid of ego I suggest you gain some empathy for your fellow man

they can't talk to other sikhs in their houses?  on a mobile phone? on the street?  at work?

where are you writing from?  California circa 1902?