ex sikhs are not sikhs

[Kau89r8]

@californiasardar1

[californiasardar1]

3 hours ago, Kau89r8 said:

@californiasardar1

 

 

I don't think singhs are better than monay.

Monay are just not sikhs. It is that simple. That is not my opinion. That is what monay have declared.

 

 

Anyway, it is not about judging individuals, who are complex and must be assessed as wholes. Who am I to judge anyway.

But it is sad that, even on forums meant to promote and discuss Sikhi, it is somehow controversial to say that cutting kesh is wrong. It is somehow controversial to say that "keeping kesh is better than cutting kesh."

[californiasardar1]

How silly is it that those twitter guys expend so much effort defending anti-Sikh behavior. Yet, they are incapable of doing something to move closer to Sikhi that literally requires NO EFFORT.

[dallysingh101]

@californiasardar1

What do you think of this?

 

 

[MisterrSingh]

11 hours ago, BhForce said:

No wonder Gurbani says:

ਨਾ ਹਮ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਨ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਨ ॥

Nā ham hindū na muslamān ॥

I am not a Hindu, nor am I a Muslim.

I don't think this ethos has fully been contextualised and understood by anyone who's tackled the parchaar. The historical context, the geography of the land, and the culture of the time all feed into this seemingly simple statement.

What it unfortunately presents is the premise that the religion of the Hindus and the religion of the Muslims is comparable -- and therefore we Sikhs were originally trapped in-between both camps as if a choice to err towards either side was available to us, and we chose to reject Islam as if it were a viable choice -- when that isn't the case. Islam is an alien belief system to the Indian soul and its soil. It is ultimately derived from Arabian desert superstitions that have dodgily been transposed onto a general Abrahamic framework of belief.

The only reason "Muslim" is even in the phrase "Na hum Hindu na Musalman" isn't because of a divinely-derived ideological imperative, but because Muslims invaded the land! If, on an alternate Earth, the Christian Knights Templar invaded India and spread their faith by the sword, would we now be saying, "Na hum Hindu na Essayi"? We give too much credence to the Islamic aspect of our history which then legitimises it, leading to some to believe that the CHOICE to follow it is a feasible possibility. I'm arguing we shouldn't legitimise Islam because it's an unwanted guest upon wherever it happens to force itself onto people and lands.

We ARE a third panth, just as Islam was the third panth of Abraham, but we're the third panth of Punjab. I don't think that's anything to be particularly proud of especially the future we're heading towards. I know; the phrase highlights our uniqueness and separate status, but even that's questionable considering the mythological history we share with the Hindus and the culture of the Punjab that we revere which is heavily flavoured by Islam. 

[SinghPunjabSingh]

7 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

We ARE a third panth, just as Islam was the third panth of Abraham, but we're the third panth of Punjab. I don't think that's anything to be particularly proud of especially the future we're heading towards. I know; the phrase highlights our uniqueness and separate status, but even that's questionable considering the mythological history we share with the Hindus and the culture of the Punjab that we revere which is heavily flavoured by Islam. 

@MisterrSingh 

I don't believe we share any mythological history with Hindu's.

Though Gurbani does make use of exclusively Hindu mythology in order to illustrate to pantheists that there is only One Ik Onkar that we need focus on.

[SinghPunjabSingh]

 

On 3/10/2022 at 2:17 PM, californiasardar1 said:

"ex-Sikhs" like deep sidhu?

I did not agree with Deep Sidhu campaigning for SSM as I wanted Bhagwant Mann to defeat Congress and the Badals. Nor do I see Deep Sidhu as some sort of superhero. But one thing Deep Sidhu certainly was = a Sikh. A sehajdhari one yes but emphatically a member of the Sikh Panth and one who had done more for Sikh interests in the last 18months than you have.

On 3/10/2022 at 2:28 PM, californiasardar1 said:

Yes, he denounced Sikhi literally every single day. Anyone with functioning eyes could verify this.

So sehajdhari Sikhs are all denouncing Sikhi?

Does the mere fact that they are not Kesdhari at this point in time means they are denouncing Sikhi and have no connection to the Sikh Panth and hence no right to even turn up to the Gurdwara?

On 3/10/2022 at 2:43 PM, MisterrSingh said:

If you're sleeping with an enthusiastic non-Sikh while advocating for Sikh interests, I'd argue you're a hypocrite. No-one is expecting perfection, just some consistency.

My understanding is that Reena Rai is a sehajdhari Sikh Doctor from California who uploaded his social media videos during the Morcha. They both worked in a Punjabi film together a few years back. Whatever his private life (which I don't know much and nor do I endorse) I sincerely do believe he cared about the Sikh Panth in his own way and his speeches and actions the last 18months confirm that to my mind.

On 3/10/2022 at 4:28 PM, californiasardar1 said:

All I said was that he was not a Sikh.

Do you believe the Sikh community comprises 2% of the east Punjab population or just over half of the current population there? If you believe that Sikhs are only the 2% in Punjab (ie only those who are Amritdhari and Kesdhari like the Badal's) do the Sikhs really have any right to protest against Genocide? Have you ever complained about Genocide against Sikhs?

On 3/19/2022 at 8:20 AM, BhForce said:

Sant ji says either they're not going to let us start a newspaper, or if they do, and we print the truth, they'll shut it down. So what's the point?

So should Sikhs give up without even trying to bother achieving something?

11 hours ago, californiasardar1 said:

Monay are just not sikhs. 

So if according to your definition Sikhs and moneh constitute 0.1% (1 in a 1000 Americans) of the American population and Sikhs such as myself and yourself constitute 0.01% (1 in 10,000 Americans) of the American population ... then surely logic would dictate that members of 0.01% demographic in the States would find it difficult to find a spouse from the same background as themselves. Would you not agree? And if so, is your strategy that Kesdhari Sikhs simply die out as a Qaum but criticise moneh harshly enough so that they never consider becoming future members of the Khalsa Panth due to your one man agenda of hating on them (as the RSS would like you to do)?

Do you not see that it suits the enemies of Sikhi just fine to define membership of the Sikh Panth as narrowly as possible in order to define Sikhs as small a demographic minority as possible?

So the Arabs of Mecca and Hindutva thinkers and Vatican chomo's all realise that the more inclusively you define a group the more power there is in numbers. But you sitting in sunny Cali think that by defining Sikhs as small and powerless demographic that it somehow helps your community and indeed yourself (in finding a spouse)?

[GurjantGnostic]

1 hour ago, SinghPunjabSingh said:

@MisterrSingh 

I don't believe we share any mythological history with Hindu's.

Though Gurbani does make use of exclusively Hindu mythology in order to illustrate to pantheists that there is only One Ik Onkar that we need focus on.

That mythology is artistic license over ancient history in my opinion. 

Not written by direct witnesses. 

Whereas Dasam Granth is written by the witness. 

[GurjantGnostic]

43 minutes ago, SinghPunjabSingh said:

 

I did not agree with Deep Sidhu campaigning for SSM as I wanted Bhagwant Mann to defeat Congress and the Badals. Nor do I see Deep Sidhu as some sort of superhero. But one thing Deep Sidhu certainly was = a Sikh. A sehajdhari one yes but emphatically a member of the Sikh Panth and one who had done more for Sikh interests in the last 18months than you have.

So sehajdhari Sikhs are all denouncing Sikhi?

Does the mere fact that they are not Kesdhari at this point in time means they are denouncing Sikhi and have no connection to the Sikh Panth and hence no right to even turn up to the Gurdwara?

My understanding is that Reena Rai is a sehajdhari Sikh Doctor from California who uploaded his social media videos during the Morcha. They both worked in a Punjabi film together a few years back. Whatever his private life (which I don't know much and nor do I endorse) I sincerely do believe he cared about the Sikh Panth in his own way and his speeches and actions confirm that to my mind.

Do you believe the Sikh community comprises 2% of the east Punjab population or just over half of the current population there? If you believe that Sikhs are only the 2% in Punjab (ie those who are Amritdhari and Kesdhari like the Badal's) do the Sikhs really have any right to protest against Genocide? Have you ever complained about Genocide against Sikhs?

So should Sikhs give up without even trying to bother achieving something?

So if according to your definition Sikhs and moneh constitute 0.1% (1 in a 1000 Americans) of the American population and Sikhs such as myself and yourself constitute 0.01% (1 in 10,000 Americans) of the American population ... then surely logic would dictate that members of 0.01% demographic in the States would find it difficult to find a spouse from the same background as themselves. Would you not agree? And if so, is your strategy that Kesdhari Sikhs simply die out as a Qaum but criticise moneh harshly enough so that they never consider becoming future members of the Khalsa Panth due to your one man agenda of hating on them (as the RSS would like you to do)?

Do you not see that it suits the enemies of Sikhi just fine to define membership of the Sikh Panth as narrowly as possible in order to define Sikhs as small a demographic minority as possible?

So the Arabs of Mecca and Hindutva thinkers and Vatican chomo's all realise that the more inclusively you define a group the more power there is in numbers. But you sitting in sunny Cali think that by defining Sikhs as small and powerless demographic that it somehow helps your community and indeed yourself (in finding a spouse)?

The conflict between, Mona, Sehajdhari, Kesdhari, and Amritdhari is all solved by using the correct organizational structure. 

[MisterrSingh]

3 hours ago, SinghPunjabSingh said:

@MisterrSingh 

I don't believe we share any mythological history with Hindu's.

Though Gurbani does make use of exclusively Hindu mythology in order to illustrate to pantheists that there is only One Ik Onkar that we need focus on.

Does the Luv and Kush line of descendants not exist anymore?