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Thoughts / Opinions on the Future of Western Countries


MisterrSingh
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On 2/12/2021 at 8:29 PM, Premi5 said:

Most of London proper is majority non white now, and most of the white British are middle/upper middle class

only in the outer parts are significant white majority.

im surprised you think that racists will flourish easily in London, I see almost none in southeast London unless you mean blacks racist towards whites 

That's called urban flight. 

And income disparity. 

Followed by pandering or denial, I can't tell. 

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On 2/9/2021 at 6:10 PM, californiasardar1 said:

 

I think that these cultural issues are a big distraction designed to obscure the much more serious economic issues. In most Western countries, the gap between the rich and poor has been steadily growing. Average people have seen their quality of life go down. Yet, instead of holding to account those responsible, or attempting to change the system that has led to the current state of affairs, most average people end up scapegoating others.

 

 

No offense (I know many posters here are from the UK), but I think that the UK in particular is in the beginning stages of a steady and prolonged decline. Brits are very delusional about their place in the world. They seem to have been too frequently fed the myth that they "stood alone" against the rest of the world in WW2 and won the war. And they don't seem to have gotten the memo that the days of empire ended long ago. Brexit has set the UK on a path to irrelevance.

Based on what I have seen, the UK has a combination of most of bad characteristics of the US and continental Europe. And it doesn't have enough of the good aspects of either the US or continental Europe.

Once you get out of Central London, it is surprising how run-down, dilapidated and depressing the UK is. It's shocking how much poverty there is. Having said that, I think the UK is still an okay place for the Sikh community (since there are many neighborhoods with large Sikh populations and gurdwaras).

The majority of the UK are quite aware they are no longer a world power. 

The UK is in decline in world power terms, however they will probably have some level of influence in the world. They may not be a hard power but they will retain soft power. 

What is quite astounding is that people are still continuing to arrive on to the shores of the UK even when there is this decline. 

What you may find that UK will become a small independent country that is relatively prosperous. As long as the majority of the UK can have a good standard of living, most Brits could not give a monkeys whether they are a world power or not.

The elites on the other hand are a different matter. 

On your last comment about how dilapidated the areas outside of Central London. We have a homeless problem but not like those tent cities that you have in LA and we don't have syringes lying around and people defecating on the streets like San Francisco.

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On 2/14/2021 at 9:29 AM, Premi5 said:

A lot of.the whites have left, like in Zimbabwe. A lot of them are in UK 

A lot of those whites have moved to Zambia as well.

It is quite sad to see the state of Zimbabwe who used to be the breadbasket of Africa. 

When the whites were kicked out, the Zimbabweans did not take the skills and experience to run those farms.

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On 2/13/2021 at 4:29 AM, Premi5 said:

Most of London proper is majority non white now, and most of the white British are middle/upper middle class

only in the outer parts are significant white majority.

im surprised you think that racists will flourish easily in London, I see almost none in southeast London unless you mean blacks racist towards whites 

You are correct on that one.

The hipster types are the type of whites who seem to be moving into London. 

However, once they decide to marry and settle down they move out again.

I went to South East London after many years. 

The changes are unbelievable. It is very unrecognisable and there has far more development than many areas of the UK. And also the character of the place has changed. 

The whites have left en-masse and what used to be a very racist area has become majority Black African area (not Afro-Caribbean ).

If anything the area was far less deprived than when it was full of Charlton Athletic and Millwall supporters. 

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1 hour ago, Ranjeet01 said:

You are correct on that one.

The hipster types are the type of whites who seem to be moving into London. 

However, once they decide to marry and settle down they move out again.

I went to South East London after many years. 

The changes are unbelievable. It is very unrecognisable and there has far more development than many areas of the UK. And also the character of the place has changed. 

The whites have left en-masse and what used to be a very racist area has become majority Black African area (not Afro-Caribbean ).

If anything the area was far less deprived than when it was full of Charlton Athletic and Millwall supporters. 

which areas in particular ?

As I said, I live and work in and around the area, I have a good friend who is white but he says he was getting attacked by blacks in lewisham when growing up

I think real racism is different to xenophobia. 

Where is more deprived now than before?

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2 hours ago, Premi5 said:

which areas in particular ?

As I said, I live and work in and around the area, I have a good friend who is white but he says he was getting attacked by blacks in lewisham when growing up

I think real racism is different to xenophobia. 

Where is more deprived now than before?

East of Lewisham. Think of the borough next to it.

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11 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Christ, the cognitive dissonance is off the charts. Acknowledging one true statement is the automatic denial of another simultaneously true statement? Go back and tell me where I failed to acknowledge and refused to pass judgement on the Native American genocide. Go on.

What you wanted to hear from me was, "Grrr, whitey bad, grrr, whitey burn in hell. Red Indians honourable, red Indians good" and when that wasn't forthcoming, you resorted to your emotional Marxist relativism. 

You're throwing a lot of buzzwords around here, what cognitive dissonance (on my part) are you talking about here? I studied psychology at postgraduate level, so please make sure you do your own homework before trying to answer that. 

I'm not suggesting some simplified binary division between 'noble' Red Indians and the other, but acknowledging deep rooted issues of supremacism and genocide that extend beyond this and (historically) cover millions of Africans, and in the current time, many of their decedents. You can probably throw in latinos/latinas in that mix too. 

Simple fact is that you your self, and others like you, fail to properly acknowledge this living active deeply embedded evil, blinded by the perceived achievements done over there on the back of this. This is called having some sort of moral compass and conception of ethics towards other oppressed people. Nothing at all to do with the usual cries of marxism and leftwing etc. etc. because I'm, neither. 

And it's not anything like the blanket condemnation of whites like you are lazily suggesting, because not all whites support or are in denial about the truth of systemic racism and genocide. That's patently obvious now too. 

 

Quote

 

There's a saying that whomever wants to stop you from thinking is not a friend; in fact that person is an enemy. Why can't I acknowledge the great achievement of the Puritan settlers in establishing themselves in a foreign land while still being disgusted at their treatment of the natives? Why do you wish to funnel and limit my thoughts?

Plus, it's quite telling how you seem to disassociate yourself from the struggles of your co-religionists by terming them as "a people" indicating they exclusively belong to someone of my background. For someone who's chiefly identified as being ardently "caste blind", you sure as hell seem to relish the misfortunes of a certain group that isn't "yours". I guess if they were Kenyan carpenters you'd have been on the first plane out there to stand in solidarity with your brothers and sisters.

The rest of your nonsense is lifted from points I myself have made in previous days about the selective application of karmic rules by a few people on this forum, so why are you presenting this reasoning as if it's alien to me? 

You use to be able to (barely) conceal your glee at the misfortunes of "jutts" (in your mind I guess you see them being representative of Sikhs in general). Now you seem to openly revel in their struggles and humiliation. Again, I guess not having any skin in the game renders them "not yours."  At least try to pretend you aren't entirely delighted at their impending destruction. You're getting sloppy.

 

 

No one is telling anyone to stop thinking here, if anything the opposite and to have the wits to recognise insidious deeply embedded cultural factors which play a big part in long standing systemic oppression. People have been aware of and conscious of this long before all the current palava has emerged. If anything, it's a success to even get people to face it let alone try and confront it. But from the sounds of you, you'd rather play along with it. So in essence you're not doing anything different to all the Hindus that deny and play down your own people's grievances. It's like you're cut from the same cloth.

I guess, with kirpa, some of us are blessed to be born in culture that has long standing, valuable, transferrable skills that enable them to swiftly dodge all the machinations that continually seem to plague the agricultural community in Panjab. 

If you think that anyone with even a partially sound mind can sit around gleefully when there own ancestral land is being ravaged and oppressed, then it might be more of you projecting your own dark nature on the situation. We've been watching the gradual but slow disempowerment of Panjab (by BOTH internal and external forces) for decades (if not centuries) now. It's sickening to watch. But that doesn't take away from the fact that within our own community, certain people have been acting as oppressors to their own themselves. Yes, I support the farmers desires for independence and a decent living, but that doesn't mean that I'm not acutely aware of the fact that disgusting oppression inbetween our own community routinely takes place, and that these other people are also deserving of our empathy  and their oppressors equally deserving of censor. 

And YES, I do believe that as a community (as well as individually), our own actions come back to us karmically. If a significant amount of people believed this too, we wouldn't have the embarrassing situations we routinely see at ground level in Panjab with rampant discrimination and oppression amongst our own, that rarely gets admitted. So don't for one minute think that current events would detract from that. 

 A lot of our own communities failings with implementing and practicing some form of ethical, humane norms between ourselves are going to come and haunt us now. Some people have been warning about this for a while now, but it seems to have fallen on selfish, deaf ears. Now we all have to witness the consequences - and they don't seem like they will be pleasant. To put it mildly. 

 

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16 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

I'm not suggesting some simplified binary division between 'noble' Red Indians and the other, but acknowledging deep rooted issues of supremacism and genocide that extend beyond this and (historically) cover millions of Africans, and in the current time, many of their decedents. You can probably throw in latinos/latinas in that mix too. 

Simple fact is that you your self, and others like you, fail to properly acknowledge this living active deeply embedded evil, blinded by the perceived achievements done over there on the back of this. This is called having some sort of moral compass and conception of ethics towards other oppressed people. Nothing at all to do with the usual cries of marxism and leftwing etc. etc. because I'm, neither. 

And it's not anything like the blanket condemnation of whites like you are lazily suggesting, because not all whites support or are in denial about the truth of systemic racism and genocide. That's patently obvious now too.

I think the friction has arisen on this subject partly from us looking at this issue from very different perspectives.

My recent (as in turn-of-the-year) mode of thinking is coloured by the way in which I'm trying to analyse Sikh history in its entirety as a grounded historical and social narrative within the Punjab, and how it relates to the greater milieu of Indian history. I'm trying to get a grasp of how our past has lead to our present, and what the present might implicate for our future.

As such I'm comparing and contrasting our emergence, struggles, and establishing a presence (of sorts) with other groups and cultures in different parts of the world; one of those subjects I've started to read-up on is the founding of the United States. It's difficult not to feel a sense of admiration for people who left their homes and the countries of their birth in order to start a new life in a place that was largely untamed wilderness. Whatever they built, they built from absoutely nothing. And what they did manage to eventually build was a new civilisation. While their impact on the existing cultures of the Natives is undoubtedly horrific, to say the least, my mind was still firmly focused on the resolve, determination and achievements of the newcomers to create something siginificant on this strange, new soil. How did they do it without even one spiritual master to lead them? Yet they managed to oust the British from their land and secure their independence through sheer strength and force of will despite the British using brutality against what were essentially their own people. What divine blessings did these Americans possess that we were never granted in our own struggle?

As for karmic tolls and the rest of it, I'm not bringing that into this discussion. It's irrelevant. It also opens up some rather uncomfortable and difficult to answer questions that just can't be quantified solely from the perspective of the cold gaze of history. Leave that to the metaphysics.

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