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Sikhi and abortion


puzzled
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Why is the womb described as hell ?  I'm guessing because the baby is very vulnerable ? and anything could go wrong? 

The baby is in meditation in the womb, by aborting you're killing a being which is basically in meditation. 

 

Agin kuMf ivic rKIAin nrk Gor mihN audru mJwrw[

agan ku(n)dd vich rakheean narak ghor mahi(n) audhar majhaaraa|

That Lord saves this body even in the hellish fire of the mother’s womb.

 

krY aurD qpu grB ivic csw n ivsrY isrjxhwrw[

karai auradh tap garabh vich chasaa na visarai sirajanahaaraa|

During pregnancy the creature hangs upside down in the mother’s womb and continuously meditates.

 

dsI mhInI jMimAW ismrx krI kry insqwrw[

dhasee maheenee ja(n)miaa(n) simaran karee kare nisataaraa|

After ten months, it takes birth – because of that meditation it is liberated from THAT* pool of fire. (*Emphasis is mine! Explained below!)

(Vaar, Bhai Gurdas Jee)

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52 minutes ago, puzzled said:

Why is the womb described as hell ?  I'm guessing because the baby is very vulnerable ? and anything could go wrong? 

The baby is in meditation in the womb, by aborting you're killing a being which is basically in meditation. 

 

Agin kuMf ivic rKIAin nrk Gor mihN audru mJwrw[

agan ku(n)dd vich rakheean narak ghor mahi(n) audhar majhaaraa|

That Lord saves this body even in the hellish fire of the mother’s womb.

 

krY aurD qpu grB ivic csw n ivsrY isrjxhwrw[

karai auradh tap garabh vich chasaa na visarai sirajanahaaraa|

During pregnancy the creature hangs upside down in the mother’s womb and continuously meditates.

 

dsI mhInI jMimAW ismrx krI kry insqwrw[

dhasee maheenee ja(n)miaa(n) simaran karee kare nisataaraa|

After ten months, it takes birth – because of that meditation it is liberated from THAT* pool of fire. (*Emphasis is mine! Explained below!)

(Vaar, Bhai Gurdas Jee)

It could be that being in the physical is extremely painful for an Atma that was just somewhere more spiritual less brutal. 

And forming a body? I wonder if it isn't really a physical hell for a little fresh returned thing to go through and if it doesn't take the hand holding of Vaheguru to do it. 

Who knows what metaphysical mentoring, or bonding time, happens between baby and Vaheguru Ji in this Samadhi. 

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1 minute ago, GurjantGnostic said:

It could be that being in the physical is extremely painful for an Atma that was just somewhere more spiritual less brutal. 

And forming a body? I wonder if it isn't really a physical hell for a little fresh returned thing to go through and if it doesn't take the hand holding of Vaheguru to do it. 

Who knows what metaphysical mentoring, or bonding time, happens between baby and Vaheguru Ji in this Samadhi. 

That's what I was thinking. The whole transition into growing arms, legs and all of that. 

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58 minutes ago, Suchi said:

@Ranjeet

They were killing girls at birth in the 70s as poor families couldn't afford the dowries being demanded.  The demand for boys was alwsys there so there were men to fight the wars that always went on.  

They also needed men to work and earn to keep the family and importantly sons to light the funeral pyre. 

The ratios were narrowing if you compare the 1981 stats with the 1961 and 1971 census stats. 

What you are saying above maybe the case. But it has become more extreme.

There were 3 wars between 1961 and 1971, 2 with Pakistan and 1 with China but it did not have the impact. 

But looking at the statistics it does seem to suggest the 1984 Kharku movement and the number of shaheedis that took place between roughly 1984 to 1994 had triggered the ratios to go into reverse. 

Those 3 wars did not have the same impact compared in those 10 years post 1984.

The 10 years was the real war and this has impacted Punjab's ratio. If there was no 1984, by now there would probably  have been near gender parity. 

 

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2 hours ago, puzzled said:

bro he isn't alive anymore, died a broken man. She on the other hand got married to some NRI from somewhere in Europe and moved abroad. 

Read this after I made the earlier post.So sad to hear.Hoes will be hoes.Stories like this make me lose faith in Karma.How come everytime the evil people carry on and have a good life with no repercussion while their victims are decimated?

If justice will come in the next life whats the point?Everyone has forgotten their pasts.Even now we don't know what we did or was done to us in our past lives.

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6 hours ago, Suchi said:

@Ranjeet01

Yes, I see what you mean.  But the troubles in Punjab could have impacted the demographics due to several reasons - reduced childbirth, increased deaths, increased migration to other states/abroad due to conflict etc.  

https://statisticstimes.com/demographics/india/punjab-population.php

This graph illustrates the demographic change since 1901 and you can see a clear reduction in population in earlier years than for the period from 1984.  The only indication that the demography was affected is a reduction of the share of Punjabi population against the rest of India.  In 1981 it was 2.46 whereas in 1991 it reduced to 2.40.  I am aware that as many as 20,000 Punjabi's migrated out of the State during this period.

Interesting link and it asks more questions

Firstly, as you mentioned the reduction of the share of the population from 1901. Does that share of Punjab's population only show what is present Punjab, because anything before 1947 would have included what is in Pakistan and anything before 1966 would have included Haryana and Himachal Pradesh.

If it is just what is present Punjab, then we can go with that.

Punjab Population (1901-2011)
Year Population Growth Share (%)
Net Change rate (%) to India
1901 7,544,790 - - 3.16
1911 6,731,510 -813,280 -10.78 2.67
1921 7,152,811 421,301 6.26 2.85
1931 8,012,325 859,514 12.02 2.87
1941 9,600,236 1,587,911 19.82 3.01
1951 9,160,500 -439,736 -4.58 2.54
1961 11,135,069 1,974,569 21.56 2.54
1971 13,551,060 2,415,991 21.70 2.47
1981 16,788,915 3,237,855 23.89 2.46
1991 20,281,969 3,493,054 20.81 2.40
2001 24,358,999 4,077,030 20.10 2.37
2011 27,743,338 3,384,339 13.89 2.29

Interesting that the growth rate change went down after 1901, but went up to a higher rate in 1941, then the rate drops again in 1951.

Partition has had impact here.

But the growth rate has been slowing from post partition

What could be impacting this, it could be that healthcare improved considerably

 Normally you would have lots of children because of child mortality but if healthcare improved and children were surviving then it quite possible people do not necessarily feel the need to have as many children.

What is also apparent is that being a rural person, does not necessarily mean that there is going to be a preference for boys. Ludhiana is perhaps the most urbanised district:

Population of Punjab districts 2011
Rank District Population Rural (%) Urban (%) Sex ratio
Male Female Total Share (%) F per 1000 M M per 100 F
9 Bathinda 743,197 645,328 1,388,525 5.00 64.05 35.95 868 115.166
19 Fatehgarh Sahib 320,795 279,368 600,163 2.16 69.09 30.91 871 114.829
1 Ludhiana 1,867,816 1,630,923 3,498,739 12.61 40.84 59.16 873 114.525
20 Barnala 317,522 278,005 595,527 2.15 67.98 32.02 876 114.214
12 Sahibzada Ajit Singh Nagar 529,253 465,375 994,628 3.59 45.24 54.76 879 113.726
15 Mansa 408,732 361,019 769,751 2.77 78.75 21.25 883 113.216
7 Sangrur 878,029 777,140 1,655,169 5.97 68.83 31.17 885 112.982
2 Amritsar 1,318,408 1,172,248 2,490,656 8.98 46.42 53.58 889 112.468
17 Faridkot 326,671 290,837 617,508 2.23 64.85 35.15 890 112.321
6 Patiala 1,002,522 893,164 1,895,686 6.83 59.74 40.26 891 112.244
11 Moga 525,920 469,826 995,746 3.59 77.18 22.82 893 111.939
5 Firozpur 1,071,637 957,437 2,029,074 7.31 72.77 27.23 893 111.928
3 Gurdaspur 1,212,617 1,085,706 2,298,323 8.28 71.31 28.69 895 111.689
13 Muktsar 475,622 426,274 901,896 3.25 72.04 27.96 896 111.577
10 Tarn Taran 589,369 530,258 1,119,627 4.04 87.34 12.66 900 111.148
14 Kapurthala 426,311 388,857 815,168 2.94 65.35 34.65 912 109.632
16 Rupnagar 357,485 327,142 684,627 2.47 74.03 25.97 915 109.275
4 Jalandhar 1,145,211 1,048,379 2,193,590 7.91 47.07 52.93 915 109.236
18 Shahid Bhagat Singh Nagar 313,291 299,019 612,310 2.21 79.52 20.48 954 104.773
8 Hoshiarpur 809,057 777,568 1,586,625 5.72 78.89 21.11 961 104.050

Ludhiana has the third lowest female ratio.

Whereas Hoshiarpur has the highest female ratio and that is mostly rural.

We call rural folk backward but it seems that urbanites can be quite backward.

We also need to take into consideration that 40 percent of Punjab is Hindu.

I think the majorities of both Hoshiarpur and Ludhiana are hindu. That would mean the Urban Hindu is more likely to skew the ratios than the rural hindu.

On the Punjab Ratio Gender by age group, most groups have more male and females, with the exception of the 60-64 cohort, these are the group that were born just around partition time and after. It is only after the age of 80, that there are more females than males.

How is it that there are more males than females in every category then suddenly it drops. What happened, with the death and destruction of partition were young infants being killed, particular male infants?

I maybe completely incorrect in my assessment, but the picture  that the statistics  paints is not the same as the narrative that goes around the issue of abortion of girls.

It is not as straightforward as it seems.

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, PuzzledToo said:

Read this after I made the earlier post.So sad to hear.Hoes will be hoes.Stories like this make me lose faith in Karma.How come everytime the evil people carry on and have a good life with no repercussion while their victims are decimated?

If justice will come in the next life whats the point?Everyone has forgotten their pasts.Even now we don't know what we did or was done to us in our past lives.

Yeah, murdering corrupt politicians come to mind who live very comfortable lives. But it think its far above our understanding. We kind of think of Karam as you do something bad so the same will happen to you, which imo is a very Western take on karma. 

You definitely face consequences, bani says that, but its not necessarily in this life. What is one day on earth is like a 1000 days in hell. 

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