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Can Non Sikhs go to sachkhand?


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3 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

I use to adore these types of theories when I was younger. But if you stop to analyse the implications behind them and tally them up with Sikh philosophy not only per Gurbani but ancillary writings, they do a lot of damage for thinking Sikhs. You can impress and shut-up an unthinking pendu with pretty much anything, but try that with someone even a little more considerate and you're opening up Pandora's Box.

About the Panj Pyare that actually comes up in gurbani that they were Bhagats in their pervious life.

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5 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

I use to adore these types of theories when I was younger. But if you stop to analyse the implications behind them and tally them up with Sikh philosophy not only per Gurbani but ancillary writings, they do a lot of damage for thinking Sikhs. You can impress and shut-up an unthinking pendu with pretty much anything, but try that with someone even a little more considerate and you're opening up Pandora's Box.

well if you read sikh philosophy it is said that santlok have options to choose to be reborn to do sewa or stay in darbar , this is in line with the indivisibility of Har and Harjan .

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1 hour ago, Arsh1469 said:

Khalsa mool mantar. In many Nihang Gutka Sahib. It is in the on I have. Probably in Dasam Granth or Sarbloh Granth. Also Sant Gurbachan in his katha also says the panj pyare previous life.

 

 

it's not in Dasam Granth or Sarbloh Granth.

It's in some 18th century pothis.

Kamalroop Singh ji writes:

What is its history?
According to the tradition it was said in the Court by the Tenth Guru, on the 
Khalsa inauguration at Vaisakhi, and recorded by scribes. The Guru 
ordered that the names of the Panj Piare and Panj Mukate to be 
immortalized forever. Many old pothia and manuscripts from the period of 
the Guru, and from slightly later, contain this composition. There are a 
number of eighteenth century manuscripts with this composition, for an 
example see Guru Nanak Dev ji University, Amritsar, MS 769 j, which is 
from around 1722 AD/ 1779 VS.

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Guys (and ladies), stop to think of what's being suggested. It's verging on disrespect. I'm not going to waffle with stuff that doesn't make sense.

1. Guru Gobind Singh is antarjami, correct? Omniscient (all-knowing) despite being in their Sargun form.

2. Now consider the ground-level events of the first Amrit Sanchaar in 1699. Don't anyone get excited and lofty; we'll just stick to what we know.

Guru Ji sent out word to Sikhs to assemble at Anandpur. Sikhs arrived at a mass gathering of fellow Sikhs where, eventually, Guru Ji asked for five Sikhs to volunteer their heads.

3. If Guru Ji knew the identity of the Panj Pyaare BEFORE they volunteered, then why the selection process AND the dramatic manner in which it occurred (the thunderous rage; some Sikhs slipping away to complain to Mata Gujjar Kaur, etc)? 

If you say, "They wanted to discern who would be brave enough to follow their command," then that also doesn't make sense, because with Guru Ji being omniscient AND the fact that the Panj Pyare were PRE-DESTINED to be the ones who would volunteer their heads (because only those five were the bhagats who were supposed to come forward that particular day), Guru Ji would know which of his Sikhs would step forward and who wouldn't. NO OTHER SIKHS that day would've ever stood up, because they were never karmically pre-selected to do so.

If someone argues, "Guru Ji wanted to give their other Sikhs an opportunity to volunteer," that also doesn't make sense, because nobody else at Anandpur could've been those five Singhs who were bhagats in their previous lifetime.

If what I've stated above is the case, then why not send a straight invitation / messenger to the Five requesting their attendance and then when they assembled, just inform them of the plan to make them the Panj Pyaare? Why the display at Anandpur? If the identity of the Five was set in concrete prior to the Amrit Sanchaar, then baptise those Singhs, and then present them to the horde at Anandpur, AND then instruct everyone else that they could now be baptised, too. Nobody would've protested.

The showmanship aspect of what people are suggesting is quite unsettling. You folks are inadvertently claiming that Guru Ji "tricked" the sangat with his blood and thunder display. 

Essentially, the "Panj Pyaare were bhagats" narrative is very damaging. It flies in the face of the egalitarian message of the concept of that first Amrit Sanchaar by suggesting that out of everyone at Anandpur, only those particular five Singhs were ever meant to volunteer their heads out of potentially thousands of possible candidates. Why? Because the SIXTH civilian Sikh who took amrit (after Guru Gobind Singh Ji of course) was the first Sikh to KNOW that his life wasn't in danger at the hands of Guru Ji's sword.

The Five (if they weren't aware of their divine heritage and weren't physically cognisant of this fact) were happy with going to their deaths at the hands of Guru Ji. Once the Five had re-emerged as the Panj Pyaare, any subsequent Sikh taking amrit knew they weren't going to die.

THAT'S why the Panj Pyaare being normal men (who didn't know of their destiny) is SO essential. It provides us mortals with HOPE that we should place our faith in Guru Ji's hukam, and that we should UNDERSTAND that those Five had absolute faith in Guru Ji's hukam, something lacking in the other Sikhs present. By making the Five into virtual God-men (of an obviously lesser status compared to Guru Sahib) it makes it seem as if the rest of us are being fooled into following orders that were never meant to test us or resonate with us in any truthful or meaningful way.

 

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Yes Non Sikhs can as long as they practice their religion with purity. 

Non - Amritdhaari also can but may be a bit difficult. "Prab bhawii t paathr traawi" (If The Lord wanted he will make a Stone float) a metaphor here... 

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20 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

yes it's mentioned in Khalsa Mool Mantar

 

So you also believe Bhai Daya Singh was rebirth of Luv Son of Lord Ram as mentioned in Khalsa Mool Mantra you shared and why All bhagats took birth in same caste like Bhagat Dhana was a jatt which took birth as Himmat singh again a jatt and same goes with Bhagat namdev and all punj peyare are caste ties so strong ?

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Maybe the 5 piare are being compared to 5 bhagats as a comparison to the level of spirituality?

 

Similar to this shabad:

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥

 ਵਾਹ ਵਾਹ! ਹੇ ਪਿਆਰੇ! ਹੇ ਗੁਰੂ! ਸਦਕੇ! 

Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Jee-o.

 

ਕਵਲ ਨੈਨ ਮਧੁਰ ਬੈਨ ਕੋਟਿ ਸੈਨ ਸੰਗ ਸੋਭ ਕਹਤ ਮਾ ਜਸੋਦ ਜਿਸਹਿ ਦਹੀ ਭਾਤੁ ਖਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥

ਤੇਰੇ ਕਮਲ ਵਰਗੇ ਨੇਤ੍ਰ ਹਨ, (ਮੇਰੇ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਤਾਂ ਤੂੰ ਹੀ ਹੈਂ ਜਿਸ ਨੂੰ) ਮਾਂ ਜਸੋਧਾ ਆਖਦੀ ਸੀ—‘ਹੇ ਲਾਲ (ਆ), ਦਹੀਂ ਚਾਉਲ ਖਾ ।’

You are lotus-eyed, with sweet speech, exalted and embellished with millions of companions. Mother Yashoda invited You as Krishna to eat the sweet rice.

 

ਦੇਖਿ ਰੂਪੁ ਅਤਿ ਅਨੂਪੁ ਮੋਹ ਮਹਾ ਮਗ ਭਈ ਕਿੰਕਨੀ ਸਬਦ ਝਨਤਕਾਰ ਖੇਲੁ ਪਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥

ਜਦੋਂ ਤੂੰ ਖੇਡ ਮਚਾਉਂਦਾ ਸੈਂ, ਤੇਰੀ ਤੜਾਗੀ ਦੀ ਛਣਕਾਰ ਦੀ ਅਵਾਜ਼ ਪੈਂਦੀ ਸੀ, ਤੇਰੇ ਅੱਤ ਸੋਹਣੇ ਮੁਖੜੇ ਨੂੰ ਵੇਖ ਕੇ (ਮਾਂ ਜਸੋਧਾ) ਤੇਰੇ ਪਿਆਰ ਵਿਚ ਮਗਨ ਹੋ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਸੀ ।

Gazing upon Your supremely beautiful form, and hearing the musical sounds of Your silver bells tinkling, she was intoxicated with delight.

 

ਕਾਲ ਕਲਮ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਹਾਥਿ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਉਨੁ ਮੇਟਿ ਸਕੈ ਈਸੁ ਬੰਮ੍ਯੁ ਗ੍ਯਾਨੁ ਧ੍ਯਾਨੁ ਧਰਤ ਹੀਐ ਚਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥

ਕਾਲ ਦੀ ਕਲਮ ਤੇ ਹੁਕਮ (ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਹੀ) ਹੱਥ ਵਿਚ ਹਨ । ਦੱਸੋ, ਕਉਣ (ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਹੁਕਮ ਨੂੰ) ਮਿਟਾ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ? ਸ਼ਿਵ ਤੇ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ (ਗੁਰੂ ਦੇ ਬਖ਼ਸ਼ੇ ਹੋਏ) ਗਿਆਨ ਤੇ ਧਿਆਨ ਨੂੰ ਆਪਣੇ ਹਿਰਦੇ ਵਿਚ ਧਾਰਨ ਕਰਨਾ ਚਾਹੁੰਦੇ ਹਨ ।

Death's pen and command are in Your hands. Tell me, who can erase it? Shiva and Brahma yearn to enshrine Your spiritual wisdom in their hearts.

 

ਸਤਿ ਸਾਚੁ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸਦਾ ਤੁਹੀ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੧॥੬॥

ਹੇ ਗੁਰੂ! ਤੂੰ ਅਚਰਜ ਹੈਂ, ਤੂੰ ਸਤਿ-ਸਰੂਪ ਹੈਂ, ਤੂੰ ਅਟੱਲ ਹੈਂ, ਤੂੰ ਹੀ ਲੱਛਮੀ ਟਿਕਾਣਾ ਹੈਂ, ਤੂੰ ਹੀ ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਹੈਂ ਤੇ ਸਦਾ-ਥਿਰ ਹੈਂ ।੬।

You are forever True, the Home of Excellence, the Primal Supreme Being. Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Guru, Waahay Jee-o. ||1||6||

 

Bhatt Gayandh in Svaiyay Mehl 5 - Ang 1402

 

Just like we don't say that Guru was an avtar of Vishnu or Krishna, it can be percieved as an comparison

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