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Can Non Sikhs go to sachkhand?


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14 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Guys (and ladies), stop to think of what's being suggested. It's verging on disrespect. I'm not going to waffle with stuff that doesn't make sense.

1. Guru Gobind Singh is antarjami, correct? Omniscient (all-knowing) despite being in their Sargun form.

2. Now consider the ground-level events of the first Amrit Sanchaar in 1699. Don't anyone get excited and lofty; we'll just stick to what we know.

Guru Ji sent out word to Sikhs to assemble at Anandpur. Sikhs arrived at a mass gathering of fellow Sikhs where, eventually, Guru Ji asked for five Sikhs to volunteer their heads.

3. If Guru Ji knew the identity of the Panj Pyaare BEFORE they volunteered, then why the selection process AND the dramatic manner in which it occurred (the thunderous rage; some Sikhs slipping away to complain to Mata Gujjar Kaur, etc)? 

If you say, "They wanted to discern who would be brave enough to follow their command," then that also doesn't make sense, because with Guru Ji being omniscient AND the fact that the Panj Pyare were PRE-DESTINED to be the ones who would volunteer their heads (because only those five were the bhagats who were supposed to come forward that particular day), Guru Ji would know which of his Sikhs would step forward and who wouldn't. NO OTHER SIKHS that day would've ever stood up, because they were never karmically pre-selected to do so.

If someone argues, "Guru Ji wanted to give their other Sikhs an opportunity to volunteer," that also doesn't make sense, because nobody else at Anandpur could've been those five Singhs who were bhagats in their previous lifetime.

If what I've stated above is the case, then why not send a straight invitation / messenger to the Five requesting their attendance and then when they assembled, just inform them of the plan to make them the Panj Pyaare? Why the display at Anandpur? If the identity of the Five was set in concrete prior to the Amrit Sanchaar, then baptise those Singhs, and then present them to the horde at Anandpur, AND then instruct everyone else that they could now be baptised, too. Nobody would've protested.

The showmanship aspect of what people are suggesting is quite unsettling. You folks are inadvertently claiming that Guru Ji "tricked" the sangat with his blood and thunder display. 

Essentially, the "Panj Pyaare were bhagats" narrative is very damaging. It flies in the face of the egalitarian message of the concept of that first Amrit Sanchaar by suggesting that out of everyone at Anandpur, only those particular five Singhs were ever meant to volunteer their heads out of potentially thousands of possible candidates. Why? Because the SIXTH civilian Sikh who took amrit (after Guru Gobind Singh Ji of course) was the first Sikh to KNOW that his life wasn't in danger at the hands of Guru Ji's sword.

The Five (if they weren't aware of their divine heritage and weren't physically cognisant of this fact) were happy with going to their deaths at the hands of Guru Ji. Once the Five had re-emerged as the Panj Pyaare, any subsequent Sikh taking amrit knew they weren't going to die.

THAT'S why the Panj Pyaare being normal men (who didn't know of their destiny) is SO essential. It provides us mortals with HOPE that we should place our faith in Guru Ji's hukam, and that we should UNDERSTAND that those Five had absolute faith in Guru Ji's hukam, something lacking in the other Sikhs present. By making the Five into virtual God-men (of an obviously lesser status compared to Guru Sahib) it makes it seem as if the rest of us are being fooled into following orders that were never meant to test us or resonate with us in any truthful or meaningful way.

 

Even if we don't believe the Panj Pyare were Bahgats everything is pre wrriten. Guru Ji knew these 5 will come up. The same way Guru Ji knew his kids will become shaheed in Battle of Chamkaur but didn't change the hukam. If Sant Ji and Gurbani says it is true than I will believe them.

The Panj Pyare are normal men who in their previous life were Bhagats. The reason why is I believe Vahguru sent the best Bhagats to be the first Sikh of the panth.

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The Bhagats whose Bani is in Guru Granth Sahib ji were all Sikhs of Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji. 

The fareed whose bani is in sggs is the 27h fareed of the lineage. Guru sahib met him. And yes guru sahib met all the bhagats and they were sikhs. Where kabeer mentions satguru he means guru sahib

To do so they don't have to be Sikh. They just have to follow the Guru's Dharam to a T and are therefore indistinguishable.  There is no way Bhagat Kabeer Jis Bani is next to Guru's Bani and Kabe

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2 hours ago, Arsh1469 said:

The Panj Pyare are normal men who in their previous life were Bhagats. The reason why is I believe Vahguru sent the best Bhagats to be the first Sikh of the panth.

You're missing the vital point. 

The Five being bhagats eliminates their relatable everyman quality that Sikhs who haven't taken Amrit are supposed to aspire to. The Five weren't supposed to be "special" before they became Khalsa; that only came about AFTER they heeded the call of the Guru. Amrit ELEVATES the individual; it is the CAUSE not the result.

What you're arguing is that Amrit itself is inconsequential; the Five's previous karma as spiritual devotees is what gave them that special quality or ingredient to step forward and become the Chosen Singhs. This completely undermines the argument that Amrit ITSELF is transformative. The implication being made is that the Five were only selected because of their previous kamaiy. 

 

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5 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

You're missing the vital point. 

The Five being bhagats eliminates their relatable everyman quality that Sikhs who haven't taken Amrit are supposed to aspire to. The Five weren't supposed to be "special" before they became Khalsa; that only came about AFTER they heeded the call of the Guru. Amrit ELEVATES the individual; it is the CAUSE not the result.

What you're arguing is that Amrit itself is inconsequential; the Five's previous karma as spiritual devotees is what gave them that special quality or ingredient to step forward and become the Chosen Singhs. This completely undermines the argument that Amrit ITSELF is transformative. The implication being made is that the Five were only selected because of their previous kamaiy. 

 

Well you make a good point but I still will stick with my belief as I think if it is in gurbani and has been said by a Sant it must be true but us regular humans can't understand and doubt.

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On 3/26/2021 at 9:12 AM, Arsh1469 said:

I don't disagree but what about Bhagat Farid Ji. He was born nearly 200 years before Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Also a couple more Bhagats had died before Guru Nanak.

 

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Sikhi in its essence has existed since satyug 

Every enlightened brahmgyani who has attained paarbrahm akaal purkh can be called a Sikh 

Such individuals of several clans, creeds, civilizations have been known to keep Kesha 

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