Which spiritual literature is better? Persian or vedic

[shastarSingh]

10 hours ago, Jai Tegang! said:

They all need to be studied but the focus should remain on Sanatan literature because that’s what Sikhi has greatest affinity to. Karma theory, Trimurti, Maya, Nirgun Sargun, Yug theory, Bhagti, plus the numerous references to Ram, Krishna, Prahlad, Dhru, other Bhagats, Janak, et

Why Gurbani says that spiritually hindu is blind and Muslim has one eye?

Why puratan brahmgyani gursikh scholars like Baba Deep Singh ji and Baba Gurbaksh Singh ji were master's of Farsi and Arabic. They must hv read lots of Farsi Arabic literature as part of their education.

Guru Sahib quoted Persian poet ferdowsi in Zafarnama.

Guru Sahib got Persian Granth kimia saadat into gurmukhi from pir budhu Shah.

Isn't the above evidence not enough for us to understand that our gursikh students shud learn farsi and read farsi spiritual literature.

 

[GurjantGnostic]

2 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

Why Gurbani says that spiritually hindu is blind and Muslim has one eye?

Why puratan brahmgyani gursikh scholars like Baba Deep Singh ji and Baba Gurbaksh Singh ji were master's of Farsi and Arabic. They must hv read lots of Farsi Arabic literature as part of their education.

Guru Sahib quoted Persian poet ferdowsi in Zafarnama.

Guru Sahib got Persian Granth kimia saadat into gurmukhi from pir budhu Shah.

Isn't the above evidence not enough for us to understand that our gursikh students shud learn farsi and read farsi spiritual literature.

 

Gurmat sources are the "core curriculum". The Guru Sahiban encouraged being well studied period. Something like Farsi and the related spiritual writings definitely qualify as worthy just not required. 

Islam has two tenets that earn it that eye. Naam and Hukam. 

[NaamTiharoJoJape]

4 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

Why Gurbani says that spiritually hindu is blind and Muslim has one eye?

Why puratan brahmgyani gursikh scholars like Baba Deep Singh ji and Baba Gurbaksh Singh ji were master's of Farsi and Arabic. They must hv read lots of Farsi Arabic literature as part of their education.

Guru Sahib quoted Persian poet ferdowsi in Zafarnama.

Guru Sahib got Persian Granth kimia saadat into gurmukhi from pir budhu Shah.

Isn't the above evidence not enough for us to understand that our gursikh students shud learn farsi and read farsi spiritual literature.

 

the hindu (aam banda living in the land of indus river) might be anna, but the mat isn't totally 100% removed from sikhi 

and in today's age where there isn't as much clarity, we need to understands vedic literature more to understand our own bani which has beant references to things outside of my younger generation's comprehension (most people, and gursikhs especially, were already well-versed in vedic philosophies)

we need gian of sanatan/vedic/hindu ideologies to be first able to pinpoint all differences and properly be able to do parchar throughout India 

Guru Sahib also sent sikhs to benares to learn vedic languages as far as I can reference, I am pretty sure guru sahiban were well-versed in Indian languages of sanskrit, etc. (and Guru Gobind Singh ji maharaj in braj as well)

persian was the wordly/political language of the day, therefore guru sahiban were learned in those as well and therefore we have the long history of Guru Nanak Dev ji freely having discourse with and enlightening maulvis, nawab daulat khan, babur and how Guru Angad Dev ji criticized Humayun, or Guru Angad Dev ji, Guru Raam Das ji kept contact with Akbar, or Guru Hargobind Sahib ji delved in the affairs of mughal state, Guru Har Krishan ji had a spiritual discourse with bahudar shah at a young age, and Guru Gobind Singh ji openly demonstrated to Aurgunzeb the hypocrisy of the mughals in Zafarnamah, etc. etc. 

but gurbani references vedic culture far more than abrahamic culture, so hence we should prioritize the former in order to understand our own sikhi

if we don't understand vedic culture, how can we differentiate dasam bani from hindu"ism" to smack down anti-dasam preachers who merely look at the name of banis like vaar sri bhaugati ji ki or chaubis avatar or chandi charitar to dismiss it to be mythological worship 

bhulan chuka li khema baksho 

[NaamTiharoJoJape]

5 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

One of taksal jathedar, I think someone before Sant Sunder Singh Bhindranwale was a nirmala and changed the curriculum.

so you refute/dispute the authenticity of the taksal in times of sant baba gurbachan singh ji, sant kartar singh ji, sant jarnail singh ji, etc.

I understand it is nirmala influenced and has evolved from its tarna dal roots, but it isnt preaching manmat of brahminism yet either

only abnormal thing I can think of taksaal doing in a brahmanical way are the akhand paaths, etc. and I was never captured by giani thakur singh ji's katha, it just never clicked with me 

[NaamTiharoJoJape]

2 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Gurmat sources are the "core curriculum". The Guru Sahiban encouraged being well studied period. Something like Farsi and the related spiritual writings definitely qualify as worthy just not required. 

Islam has two tenets that earn it that eye. Naam and Hukam. 

100%, our worldy studies in language/philosophy/social sciences should at best/least reflect gurmat 

[shastarSingh]

1 hour ago, NaamTiharoJoJape said:

but gurbani references vedic culture far more than abrahamic culture, so hence we should prioritize the former in order to understand our own sikhi

if we don't understand vedic culture, how can we differentiate dasam bani from hindu"ism" to smack down anti-dasam preachers who merely look at the name of banis like vaar sri bhaugati ji ki or chaubis avatar or chandi charitar to dismiss it to be mythological worship 

I never said we shud stop reading vedic literature.

I just said we shud read Farsi literature as well as Farsi is a beautiful language and there r many beautiful thoughts in Farsi literature.

[NaamTiharoJoJape]

2 minutes ago, shastarSingh said:

I never said we shud stop reading vedic literature.

I just said we shud reach Farsi literature as well as Farsi is a beautiful language and there r many beautiful thoughts in Farsi literature.

I don't dispute that either, but I think we should prioritize vedic literature because of how much gurbani references it compared to farsi/abrahamic culture 

I think persian is majestic for some reason lol, seems a bit royal so I get why it is so attractive 

[shastarSingh]

40 minutes ago, NaamTiharoJoJape said:

persian was the wordly/political language of the day, therefore guru sahiban were learned in those as well and therefore we have the long history of Guru Nanak Dev ji freely having discourse with and enlightening maulvis, nawab daulat khan, babur and how Guru Angad Dev ji criticized Humayun, or Guru Angad Dev ji, Guru Raam Das ji kept contact with Akbar, or Guru Hargobind Sahib ji delved in the affairs of mughal state, Guru Har Krishan ji had a spiritual discourse with bahudar shah at a young age, and Guru Gobind Singh ji openly demonstrated to Aurgunzeb the hypocrisy of the mughals in Zafarnamah, etc. etc. 

Guru Sahib quoted ferdowsi poet in Zafarnama.

Guru Sahib got kimia saadat Persian Granth into gurmukhi from peer budhu Shah.

So Guru Sahib did not just read Persian Granths to learn Persian language as it was the worldly/political language.

Guru Sahib also appreciated many thoughts in spiritual Farsi literature.

So taksali students shud read farsi spiritual literature alongside vedic literature.

[NaamTiharoJoJape]

3 minutes ago, shastarSingh said:

Guru Sahib quoted ferdowsi poet in Zafarnama.

Guru Sahib got kimia saadat Persian Granth into gurmukhi from peer budhu Shah.

So Guru Sahib did not just read Persian Granths to learn Persian language as it was the worldly/political language.

Guru Sahib also appreciated many thoughts in spiritual Farsi literature.

So taksali students shud read farsi spiritual literature alongside vedic literature.

like I said, yes both are optimal 

but vedic literature should be more prioritized and be the prerequisite (as was the case with guru nanak dev ji or other guru sahiban who first learned sanskrit before moving on to a madrasa) (you don't run before you learn to crawl) 

farsi has always been considered foreign language and as beautiful it may be, it still isn't as much of a reference in gurbani as vedas/puranas/devtas/nirgun sargun/yugas/karma/reincarnation/the primal sound/kalki avtar (I forgot what nihangs called it) especially in sggs 

mind you bachitar natak, and of course tons of more dasam bani still draws stories of charitar pakhyan from puranas, and guru sahib did a whole katha on the avatars of vishnu 

and like I have said before, in this day than never, we aren't as aware of the historical references behind much of gurbani as much as our predecessors so often many of us confuse dasam bani to be an infusion of vedic mat so we need to be a bit more literate of vedic mat to be able to differentiate between that and sikhi when reading bani  

I don't want to belittle any specific school of thought, but abrahamic ideology is also much more linear and simple compared to sikhi so trying to understand sikhi through western lenses is a much more difficult task compared to a hindu looking at sikhi and recognizing many gurmat principles such as meditation, connecting with paarbrahm, langar, karma (although westerners also believe in deeds being a large part of judgement in parlok) etc. 

[NaamTiharoJoJape]

20 minutes ago, shastarSingh said:

Guru Sahib quoted ferdowsi poet in Zafarnama.

Guru Sahib got kimia saadat Persian Granth into gurmukhi from peer budhu Shah.

So Guru Sahib did not just read Persian Granths to learn Persian language as it was the worldly/political language.

Guru Sahib also appreciated many thoughts in spiritual Farsi literature.

So taksali students shud read farsi spiritual literature alongside vedic literature.

sorry did not mean to reduce the language of farsi to being merely worldy, but that was the primary role of it back in the day and why bhai mehta kalu ji ordered his son to learn it on advice of rai bular who gauranteed his recommendation for guru nanak getting a sarkari job