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Which spiritual literature is better? Persian or vedic


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1 hour ago, NaamTiharoJoJape said:

but gurbani references vedic culture far more than abrahamic culture, so hence we should prioritize the former in order to understand our own sikhi

if we don't understand vedic culture, how can we differentiate dasam bani from hindu"ism" to smack down anti-dasam preachers who merely look at the name of banis like vaar sri bhaugati ji ki or chaubis avatar or chandi charitar to dismiss it to be mythological worship 

I never said we shud stop reading vedic literature.

I just said we shud read Farsi literature as well as Farsi is a beautiful language and there r many beautiful thoughts in Farsi literature.

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They all need to be studied but the focus should remain on Sanatan literature because that’s what Sikhi has greatest affinity to. Karma theory, Trimurti, Maya, Nirgun Sargun, Yug theory, Bhagti, plus

I never said we shud stop reading vedic literature. I just said we shud read Farsi literature as well as Farsi is a beautiful language and there r many beautiful thoughts in Farsi literature.

Though vedic literature possesses difficult and complex thoughts, Persian spiritual  literature is better as it has more fear, love and faith on God. What does the sangat think? It is sad th

2 minutes ago, shastarSingh said:

I never said we shud stop reading vedic literature.

I just said we shud reach Farsi literature as well as Farsi is a beautiful language and there r many beautiful thoughts in Farsi literature.

I don't dispute that either, but I think we should prioritize vedic literature because of how much gurbani references it compared to farsi/abrahamic culture 

I think persian is majestic for some reason lol, seems a bit royal so I get why it is so attractive 

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40 minutes ago, NaamTiharoJoJape said:

persian was the wordly/political language of the day, therefore guru sahiban were learned in those as well and therefore we have the long history of Guru Nanak Dev ji freely having discourse with and enlightening maulvis, nawab daulat khan, babur and how Guru Angad Dev ji criticized Humayun, or Guru Angad Dev ji, Guru Raam Das ji kept contact with Akbar, or Guru Hargobind Sahib ji delved in the affairs of mughal state, Guru Har Krishan ji had a spiritual discourse with bahudar shah at a young age, and Guru Gobind Singh ji openly demonstrated to Aurgunzeb the hypocrisy of the mughals in Zafarnamah, etc. etc. 

Guru Sahib quoted ferdowsi poet in Zafarnama.

Guru Sahib got kimia saadat Persian Granth into gurmukhi from peer budhu Shah.

So Guru Sahib did not just read Persian Granths to learn Persian language as it was the worldly/political language.

Guru Sahib also appreciated many thoughts in spiritual Farsi literature.

So taksali students shud read farsi spiritual literature alongside vedic literature.

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3 minutes ago, shastarSingh said:

Guru Sahib quoted ferdowsi poet in Zafarnama.

Guru Sahib got kimia saadat Persian Granth into gurmukhi from peer budhu Shah.

So Guru Sahib did not just read Persian Granths to learn Persian language as it was the worldly/political language.

Guru Sahib also appreciated many thoughts in spiritual Farsi literature.

So taksali students shud read farsi spiritual literature alongside vedic literature.

like I said, yes both are optimal 

but vedic literature should be more prioritized and be the prerequisite (as was the case with guru nanak dev ji or other guru sahiban who first learned sanskrit before moving on to a madrasa) (you don't run before you learn to crawl) 

farsi has always been considered foreign language and as beautiful it may be, it still isn't as much of a reference in gurbani as vedas/puranas/devtas/nirgun sargun/yugas/karma/reincarnation/the primal sound/kalki avtar (I forgot what nihangs called it) especially in sggs 

mind you bachitar natak, and of course tons of more dasam bani still draws stories of charitar pakhyan from puranas, and guru sahib did a whole katha on the avatars of vishnu 

and like I have said before, in this day than never, we aren't as aware of the historical references behind much of gurbani as much as our predecessors so often many of us confuse dasam bani to be an infusion of vedic mat so we need to be a bit more literate of vedic mat to be able to differentiate between that and sikhi when reading bani  

I don't want to belittle any specific school of thought, but abrahamic ideology is also much more linear and simple compared to sikhi so trying to understand sikhi through western lenses is a much more difficult task compared to a hindu looking at sikhi and recognizing many gurmat principles such as meditation, connecting with paarbrahm, langar, karma (although westerners also believe in deeds being a large part of judgement in parlok) etc. 

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20 minutes ago, shastarSingh said:

Guru Sahib quoted ferdowsi poet in Zafarnama.

Guru Sahib got kimia saadat Persian Granth into gurmukhi from peer budhu Shah.

So Guru Sahib did not just read Persian Granths to learn Persian language as it was the worldly/political language.

Guru Sahib also appreciated many thoughts in spiritual Farsi literature.

So taksali students shud read farsi spiritual literature alongside vedic literature.

sorry did not mean to reduce the language of farsi to being merely worldy, but that was the primary role of it back in the day and why bhai mehta kalu ji ordered his son to learn it on advice of rai bular who gauranteed his recommendation for guru nanak getting a sarkari job 

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1 hour ago, NaamTiharoJoJape said:

so you refute/dispute the authenticity of the taksal in times of sant baba gurbachan singh ji, sant kartar singh ji, sant jarnail singh ji, etc.

I hv great respect for all taksal jathedaars u mentioned.

I long for the charan dhoor(dust) of the feet of Baba Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale.

But only Guru Sahib is 100% correct.

Just because taksali Singhs started reading lot more vedic granths due to nirmala influence, that does not mean they lost all their spiritual power and we saw that power in 1984.

Taksal is very important for Khalsa panth but it needs some improvements.

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12 minutes ago, shastarSingh said:

I hv great respect for all taksal jathedaars u mentioned.

I long for the charan dhoor(dust) of the feet of Baba Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale.

But only Guru Sahib is 100% correct.

Just because taksali Singhs started reading lot more vedic granths due to nirmala influence, that does not mean they lost all their spiritual power and we saw that power in 1984.

Taksal is very important for Khalsa panth but it needs some improvements.

glad we can agree on that

but I don't think it is too nirmala influenced (I am not a taksali by no means) other than what I mentioned bout the akhand paaths etc. (same goes for sant samajis)

I think I talked bout taksal in another thread, but modern day Taksal would be puratan version of nirmalas back when they were panthic scholars being the forefront of parchar as Taksal was originally indistinguishable from Tarna Dal/nihang singhs 

maybe we can open a seperate thread on how influenced do you think many of the sants of 20th century by nirmalas (IMO more than taksal itself) because that is something I find weird 

also I think you are responding to former much earlier replies of mine I just noticed 

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2 hours ago, NaamTiharoJoJape said:

only abnormal thing I can think of taksaal doing in a brahmanical way are the akhand paaths

how is it different than normal akhand paaths

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1 minute ago, intrigued said:

how is it different than normal akhand paaths

just in general where people treat it like mantras or havan 

and make it a kirt for the paathi 

and there is nobody there to listen or etc. 

also getting into the numbers game of 101 jaap of etc., or 50 guru swaroop in same room having akhand paath (attributed to usually sant deras) 

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1 minute ago, NaamTiharoJoJape said:

just in general where people treat it like mantras or havan 

and make it a kirt for the paathi 

and there is nobody there to listen or etc. 

also getting into the numbers game of 101 jaap of etc., or 50 guru swaroop in same room having akhand paath (attributed to usually sant deras) 

imo, if 1 sehaj paath is done with proper contemplation and devotion, it is better than an akhand paath where the priority is how fast one is doing it to finish in a certain time. I think a lot of the number games start small, with you have to finish akhand paath in 2 days and then it builds up to stuff. but at least they are doing jaap even if they are attaching a number to it, that's more than what a lot of other sikhs do

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8 minutes ago, intrigued said:

I wanna learn both persian and sanskrit one day...

you should, but I am just saying one should be more prioritized for all the reasons given in my posts 

for examplle, even guru sahiban first recieved education of sanskrit before moving on the persian, madrasas etc. 

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4 minutes ago, intrigued said:

imo, if 1 sehaj paath is done with proper contemplation and devotion, it is better than an akhand paath where the priority is how fast one is doing it to finish in a certain time. I think a lot of the number games start small, with you have to finish akhand paath in 2 days and then it builds up to stuff. but at least they are doing jaap even if they are attaching a number to it, that's more than what a lot of other sikhs do

very true, but today we often see people who never do nitnem but then do a akhand paath when startting a business etc. as if guru is a wish genie 

and often begin to engage in bujjer kurehit the next day 

hora vale ki gal kara, I can see this in my own family with certain individuals 

the better than nothing logic is of merit, but we need to see a end result and progression, not just seeing deras doing 50 akhand paaths at once in a single room of paathis at every barsi of one of their mukhis 

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4 minutes ago, NaamTiharoJoJape said:

you should, but I am just saying one should be more prioritized for all the reasons given in my posts 

for examplle, even guru sahiban first recieved education of sanskrit before moving on the persian, madrasas etc. 

sanskrit will be more easier to learn i think because of prior knowledge of bani and gurmukhi

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1 minute ago, intrigued said:

sanskrit will be more easier to learn i think because of prior knowledge of bani and gurmukhi

exactly my point, it is more attuned to bani than farsi for the bigger picture, hence the priority 

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