Sufis

[puzzled]

Not sure who this person was Ahmad Sirhindi, but I checked up on him and he was a sufi from Sirhind, Punjab. His tomb/dargah is in the Rauza Sharif complex. I've never heard of him but I knew about the Rauza Sharif dargah as its quite well known and many people go there. Its very close to Gurdwara Fathegarh Sahib, you cans see the domes of the dargah from the road as you drive past.

Anyway this is what the sufi Ahmad Sirhindi had to say about Guru Arjan Dev ji  "Before that kãfir, Sikh Guru Arjun Dev was executed, I had seen in a dream that the reigning Sultan had smashed the skull of idolatry. Indeed, Arjun was a great idolater, and the chief of unbelievers. May Allah blast him!" - Sufi Ahmad Sirhindi

Came across this on twitter. This really isn't surprising! Sufis have been heavily romanticized in India, especially in Punjab but the more you look into what these sufis believed in, their political and social views, the more evident it becomes that many of them were just as bad as the Muslim invaders. 

Considering that Rauza Sharif dargah is in Punjab and how it is quite well known, you can just imagine how many ill informed Sikhs go to this dargah and cover the graves in green sheets etc. without knowing what this sufi thought of them or their guru.

 

Waris Shah another sufi loved by many Sikhs. Waris Shah actually fought in the Mughal army. He fought against the Afghans in the army of the Mughal governor of Lahore, the same governor who had a role in the chota ghallughara. Waris Shah also called the rise of the Sikh Misls as "doomsday"  

 

if you believe in these sufis and worship the darghas then at least know who it is that you're worshipping! 

 

 

[MisterrSingh]

2 hours ago, puzzled said:

Not sure who this person was Ahman Sirhindi, but I checked up on him and he was a sufi from Sirhind, Punjab. His tomb/dargah is in the Rauza Sharif complex. I've never heard of him but I knew about the Rauza Sharif dargah as its quite well known and many people go there. Its very close to Gurdwara Fathegarh Sahib, you cans see the domes of the dargah from the road as you drive past.

Anyway this is what the sufi Ahmad Sirhindi had to say about Guru Arjan Dev ji  "Before that kãfir, Sikh Guru Arjun Dev was executed, I had seen in a dream that the reigning Sultan had smashed the skull of idolatry. Indeed, Arjun was a great idolater, and the chief of unbelievers. May Allah blast him!" - Sufi Ahmad Sirhindi

Came across this on twitter. This really isn't surprising! Sufis have been heavily romanticized in India, especially in Punjab but the more you look into what these sufis believed in, their political and social views, the more evident it becomes that many of them were just as bad as the Muslim invaders that rules over India.

Considering that Rauza Sharif dargah is in Punjab and how it is quite well known, you can just imagine how many ill informed Sikhs go to this dargah and cover the graves in green sheets etc. without knowing what this sufi thought of them or their guru.

 

Waris Shah another sufi loved by many Sikhs. Waris Shah actually fought in the Mughal army. He fought against the Afghans in the army of the Mughal governor of Lahore, the same governor who had a role in the chota ghallughara. Waris Shah also called the rise of the Sikh Misls as "doomsday"  

 

if you believe in this sufis and worship the darghas then at least know who it is that you're worshipping! 

 

 

I'm glad you've raised this issue, Singh. Sikhs need to be aware of and reject the erroneous propaganda about Sufism that's been run rampant among us for centuries. We've been convinced that Sufism is the acceptable, friendly, and pro-Sikh brand of Islam from which we should take some of our cues. History proves that powerful Sufi contemporaries of our Guru Sahib's were far from enthusiastic about Sikh growth and their existence in general. But we love to get our Sufi on and act like we're a bunch of desert dwelling mystics like Sartinder Sartaj and the rest of that bollox. 

As I've said on previous occasions in reference to Sufism: it's Islam in a gentler less abrasive gear. The endgame is EXACTLY the same. Don't let the surface affectations which sometimes bear a resemblance to certain Vedic devotional practices lull you into believing it's something it's not.

[puzzled]

3 hours ago, Rajasthani said:

Not all sufis are Like this Ahmed sir Hindi was against Most of sufis who were Liberal in Nature 

Warish shah I am Hearing First time He said rise of  Sikh misl as doomsday

There are many sufis Who were good Bulle shah ,Allah yaar jogi etc 

 

Bro, Waris Shah was pro-Mughal. He even served in the Mughal army under Shah Nawaz, the governor of Lahore who took part in the ghallughara. Shah Nawaz also reportedly used torture devices on female genitals. 

When the Mughals defeated the Afghans in a battle, Waris Shah wrote a poem congratulating and complimenting the Mughal.

He was pro-Mughal. 

I'm not saying Waris Shah was a bad person, but Sikhs should not praise anyone who was pro-Mughal, especially someone who fought in the army of people like Shah Nawaz. 

 

 

 

 

[puzzled]

1 hour ago, MisterrSingh said:

I'm glad you've raised this issue, Singh. Sikhs need to be aware of and reject the erroneous propaganda about Sufism that's been run rampant among us for centuries. We've been convinced that Sufism is the acceptable, friendly, and pro-Sikh brand of Islam from which we should take some of our cues. History proves that powerful Sufi contemporaries of our Guru Sahib's were far from enthusiastic about Sikh growth and their existence in general. But we love to get our Sufi on and act like we're a bunch of desert dwelling mystics like Sartinder Sartaj and the rest of that bollox. 

As I've said on previous occasions in reference to Sufism: it's Islam in a gentler less abrasive gear. The endgame is EXACTLY the same. Don't let the surface affectations which sometimes bear a resemblance to certain Vedic devotional practices lull you into believing it's something it's not.

Yeah majority of them were no different to radical mullahs. The aim of most Sufis was to bring kafirs into the fold of Islam. 

Many sufis entered South Asia along with the invaders, the invaders and sufis then worked hand in hand to convert the masses.

Because of the large Muslim population of pre-partition Punjab, sufi influence obviously had always been there, but it should have disappeared after partition but it didn't!  I think the problem is that the movies and music continued to romanticize sufis, especially the Punjabi singers.

Its one of those things which I've never understood about India and Indians. Like how Islamic monuments like the Taj Mahal and Qutab Minar are glorified. Its the same with the sufis. 

 

[puzzled]

Sikhs at Rauza Sharif, shrine of Ahmad Sirhindi. 

[puzzled]

Moinudin Chisti (Ajmer Sharif) is probably the most well known Sufi in India.

The dargah Ajmer Sharif, shrine of Moinudin Chisti is one of the most well know dargahs of South Asia, many Bollywood actors go there. Chisti came into South Asia with the invaders and supported the invaders in their Jihad against the Hindu kings.

When Muhammad Ghori defeated the Hindu king Pritviraj Chauhan, Chisti rejoiced and wrote how Pritviraj Chauhan was handed over to the "army of Islam"  

[Jai Tegang!]

Our ancestors kept all muslims at an arms length, even the ones they befriended or were fellow villagers. The danger lies in the dormant aspects that can take full form at some unfortunate point in the future. I know many doabias go to these sufi-lite jagahs, but they don’t realize that all it’s going to take is a slight consolidation by a genuine muslim leader to bring their children permanently into the fold. After 2 or 3 generations it can go from casually visiting the pir,  to building mosques in the pinds.

The native Punjabi Sikhs just don’t see the wider picture. The loss of half of all land and wealth and about 10-20% of the Panth isn’t enough of a reminder. Or the fact there are only 15 thousand Sikhs in ALL of Pakistan, while there are over 0.5 million muslims in just Indian Punjab. Sufi or no sufi, we need to learn to stay clear. Reciprocate the same level of respect, sure, but nothing more.

[MisterrSingh]

I'm sure most of you would refuse to acknowledge any person who considers themselves a Sikh who doesn't believe and follow the basic tenets of Sikhi regardless of their self identified labels. Same theory applies to "Muslims" of the Guru period (as well as those whose Bani was included in Sikh scriptures) who rejected Islamic philosophy and practices. They were viewed as apostates by the Qazis and the general knowledgeable Muslim population, but we, in all our "wisdom" seem to love reminding the world how these saints and devotees were definitely Muslim. How could they be Muslim when they arrived at the enlightened stage of mind to realise that their Islamic practices (and religious labels in general) are false? The Bani they AUTHORED is a  unequivocal REJECTION of their Islamic orthodoxy! Do Sikhs want a signed affidavit printed at the end of every bir to drive the point home?!