Amazing khazana with Nihang Jatinder Singh

[intrigued]

15 minutes ago, IshR said:

There are puraatan saroops that  include other compositions AFTER Mundaavni (but BEFORE Raagmala), such as: 

Jit Dar Lakh Mohammada, 

Siahi Di Bhidhi, 

Ratanmala, 

Hakeekatrah mukam, 

Praan Sangli, 

Rab Mukam Ki Sabk, 

Baye Atisb 

Using the same logic, why do you not believe in any of the above compositions? Or do you?

One must always seek the truth. Without love for the truth it will not be found, the ultimate truth is god. 

What is the truth? In court the truth can be proven through evidence, facts, reason and logic. 

As a human we are given the ability to use reason and logic which lead to the truth.

Sikhism is the ultimate truth. For example the logic in Islam lacks logic and reason. I once had the following discussion with a Muslim.

 

Me - is god fair and just?

Muslim - yes, 100%

Me - are his laws fair and just?

Muslim - yes, absolutely 

Me - please explain to me why, there is a Muslim prince sitting in Saudi Arabia with a very comfortable life, enjoying good health, wealth and wives. Yet on the same planet there are Muslim children being born into war, poverty, famine and disease? 

Muslim - silence.....I cant answer that question. However I believe Islam is the true faith and Muhammad is the true messenger pbuh.

Me - lol, you have contradicted yourself. On one side you claim god is almighty, fair and just. Yet you cannot explain what you see in front of your very eyes.

Muslim - How do you explain it?

Me - God creates the law of karma which applies to all living beings. One reaps that which he sows. In this way beings come and go in a cycle of reincarnation. Since Muslims do not believe in reincarnation you cannot reason with logic. 

 

Thus, through the truth of reason and logic I highlighted that Islam does not make sense, there is no logic. Muslims will still believe in Islam in ego, despite truthful reason and logic indicating otherwise.

Using the same truthful reason and logic, one can come to a conclusion about ragmala in the same manner. However there are those who will believe otherwise (in ego just like the muslims) regardless of which direction the truth points.

Those of you seeking the truth please read mundavani by gyiani gurdit singh.

 

Ragmala was written by a poet named Alam (Unlike the rest of gurbani which was composed by a sikh guru or a bhagat) and is part of the story called madhav nal katha.

The story is about a concubine dancing to a court priest. While she dances to music the poet alam states which raags were used (ragmala). 
These raags do not match with raags in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

All the facts and pieces of evidence prove ragmala is not gurbani.

I raise only a few of the points but there are many.

Again please read the book mundavani by gyiani gurdit singh should you wish to know the truth.

 

 

 

Veerji/Bhenji let's not get into this debate ji. 

[shastarSingh]

On 5/25/2021 at 7:40 PM, intrigued said:

Any more details about this sarup?

 

[IshR]

1 hour ago, shastarSingh said:

The 300 year old sarups mentioned in this thread don't contain the kachi baanis mentioned in ur post.

Besides the point.

In many puratan saroops ragmala comes AFTER the kachi banis I mentioned. To make this crystal clear for you .... the order of compositions in these puratan saroops is: 

mundavni - kachi bani - ragmala 

 

In these puratan saroops, if ragmala was gurbani surely it would come before the kachi bani (like mundavani) and not after?

ie mundavani - ragmala - kachi bani  

The only consistent finding in every single puratan saroop, is that mundavani is present before ragmala.

Kachi bani mentioned will never come before mundavani. This is because mundavani was guru arjan dev jis seal, so that Guru Granth Sahib Ji can not be corrupted ... no bani can be added or removed before mundavani due to the system of numbering devised by the perfect guru arjan dev ji. 

In some puratan saroops there is no ragmala or it’s clearly been added after mundavani at a later date in a different ink together with other kachi bani. 

I will not discuss further as it’s clear those who are in certain jathabandhis must believe in ragmala as it forms part of their identity / ego.

I merely wish to raise awareness amongst those genuinely seeking the truth to read mundavani by gyiani gurdit singh

I will not be replying further as it’s a pointless exercise. 
 

 

 

[shastarSingh]

Interesting and informative article in favour of Raagmala by Dr. Harbhajan Singh

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zc1HiJMp3_UMm8R_21PtLmZdd4UBMNg1/view?usp=drivesdk

[S1ngh]

Below posted back in 2008 - 

 

Controversial Topics

Raag Maala: Raag Maala appears on the last Ang of Guru Granth Sahib Ji. There has been much conflict in the Panth over this for the last 150 years. Majority of the members on this forum are at young age. This is the age to learn about Sikhi so that we can follow Guru Ji's path. It is very easy for young members to go off topic and turn the debate into personal attacks which brings down the quality of the forum. Although Bani is very dear to us and we would like to see this matter resolved but many great scholars have written so much about it. Both sides have good intentions and respect Bani very much. Any insulting, jatha bashing or vulgar comments are not allowed and will result in banning the member without any notice or warning. If anyone wants to explore this topic he/she should read the books that have been written in the past and make up his/her mind. No topics about Raag Maala shall be discussed on SikhSangat Forum. Warning will be issued. We request everyone to respect each other's beliefs and learn from each other.

 

-----

Feel free to talk about the discovery of puratan granth. Any reply after this reply on the issue of Raagmala will get the thread locked. 

[shastarSingh]

Sorry admin 

Just  wanted to share the khazana of nihang jatinder singh

[intrigued]

9 hours ago, intrigued said:

What is pathar da chapa? Is it similar to lithography?

@dallysingh101 Do you know anything about this veerji?

[dallysingh101]

On 5/27/2021 at 1:54 AM, intrigued said:

@dallysingh101 Do you know anything about this veerji?

I don't Bhai ji. Sorry. 

[intrigued]

1 minute ago, dallysingh101 said:

I don't Bhai ji. Sorry. 

Thats ok to my understanding it appears to be similar cause lithography uses stone as well. Perhaps a variation of it

[dallysingh101]

2 minutes ago, intrigued said:

Thats ok to my understanding it appears to be similar cause lithography uses stone as well. Perhaps a variation of it

That's' what I'd assume. But the thought of someone having to carve that many stones to create an impress seems like a colossal task. Plus at that scale the chance of chipping the stone would be very high. I think wood cuts were used by the early colonial period though, but I think that was probably for smaller pothis and pictures.