Being told what to do ?

[GurjantGnostic]

48 minutes ago, Premi5 said:

Your first paragraph, fair enough

Second para - what I mean is, do you think black people in the UK feel solidarity with south Asians and other immigrants ?

What did Rihanna catch a Fir for again?

[dallysingh101]

3 hours ago, Premi5 said:

Your first paragraph, fair enough

Second para - what I mean is, do you think black people in the UK feel solidarity with south Asians and other immigrants ?

I know a good cross section of society. Including many black people. I know that they have been at the forefront of confronting racism here, something you're probably not old enough to remember, even less so given you've grown up with majority whites. 

Black attitudes differ: on one end some feel contempt, that many 'asians' don't fight against it like they do, and suffer for. Some of them (understandably from my perspective) resent the perceived placid brown folks for this. Some feel they make the sacrifices to confront it, whilst quiet, docile brown folk reap the rewards for their silence and are indirectly complicit.  

On the other end, I know plenty of black people, male and female, who abhor racism in general, and seeing it (even if against a brown person) hurts them. I know plenty who would step in against it too, or at least offer moral support, and not turn a blind eye and underplay it like the vast majority of whites do. 

[Premi5]

1 hour ago, GurjantGnostic said:

What did Rihanna catch a Fir for again?

True

 

1 hour ago, dallysingh101 said:

I know a good cross section of society. Including many black people. I know that they have been at the forefront of confronting racism here, something you're probably not old enough to remember, even less so given you've grown up with majority whites. 

Black attitudes differ: on one end some feel contempt, that many 'asians' don't fight against it like they do, and suffer for. Some of them (understandably from my perspective) resent the perceived placid brown folks for this. Some feel they make the sacrifices to confront it, whilst quiet, docile brown folk reap the rewards for their silence and indirect complicity.  

On the other end, I know plenty of black people, male and female, who abhor racism in general, and seeing it (even if against a brown person) hurts them. I know plenty who would step in against it too, or at least offer moral support, and not turn a blind eye and underplay it like the vast majority of whites do. 

You could be right

If so, why do you think Black people (would have been mostly Black Caribbean in 50s-80s more so than Black Africans) fought more against racism, than say, the first Punjabis (Punjabis known for being typically bigger and stronger than other Indians or South Asians e.g. Gujaratis, Bengalis) ? 

[dallysingh101]

1 hour ago, Premi5 said:

True

 

You could be right

If so, why do you think Black people (would have been mostly Black Caribbean in 50s-80s more so than Black Africans) fought more against racism, than say, the first Punjabis (Punjabis known for being typically bigger and stronger than other Indians or South Asians e.g. Gujaratis, Bengalis) ? 

 

One reason I think those Caribbean blacks fought harder was because the experiences of slavery was still in their collective consciousness, and frankly they have had a lot of brutal experiences with whites that (understandably) made them suspicious of them. Remember, the Caribbean people interacted with whites for a lot longer than Panjabis, (by many centuries). Also, I believe that racist attitudes and propaganda that characterised blacks as slow witted and dumb, made whites put their guard down a bit around them, and as a consequence, blacks got to be privy to all sorts of things that they managed to hide from 'Indians', especially Sikhs. So all the rapes, pedophilia, massacres, torture, murder and violence (inflicted on males and females) were known about by these people (including some vague understanding about the existence of 'secret societies'), whilst the whites hid that from us really well, portraying themselves as paragons of virtue, which many apnay gullibly swallowed, not knowing the full truth behind the façade. 

I think the legacy and brutality of slavery toughened them up, and that they knew full well what was at stake from their people's longstanding history with europeans.  The early attitude of whites to nonwhite immigrants really reflected what you'd expect to find on a plantation, with physical and verbal attacks predicated on a sense of innate superiority. Blacks had been fighting this for a long while (and still are), and knew what they were facing from the get go. 

Many Panjabis on the other hand, didn't fight for their freedom and accepted subjugation under the british. This isn't true for everyone though, and those that did, independent-minded, freedom loving people like Bhai Maharaj Singh ji, Sohan Singh Bhakna, Kartar Singh Sarabha, Udham Singh and many others, are heroes to people like myself. But it must be said that hordes of apnay (despite being armed) toed the line in their own homeland and curiously fought many battles for the very people who had subjugated them. This tells us a lot about prevalent mentalities (often described as 'docile' by goray). 

I think those early immigrant blacks prioritised their personal liberty, safety and freedom, knowing full well what evils could be perpetrated upon them based on their own ongoing and recent history. They strongly objected to, and resisted, the treatment meted out to them. Most Panjabis (well apnay more than sullay) prioritised economic considerations and (I believe) still retained that servile, colonial mentality pushed on them post-annexation - but it must be said: some Panjabis, (more so 2nd generation) did fight goray here (despite being outnumbered), and fiercely too, and in many of these conflicts goray came off the worse, which made them think twice about attacking again. 

I think also many apnay were in shock too, they probably never expected all the racism and attacks (physical, psychological and verbal) and state collusion in this (especially by the police and tories), because colonial brainwashing meant many thought the sun shone out of goray's bhunds.    

[GurjantGnostic]

4 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

 

One reason I think those Caribbean blacks fought harder was because the experiences of slavery was still in their collective consciousness, and frankly they have had a lot of brutal experiences with whites that (understandably) made them suspicious of them. Remember, the Caribbean people interacted with whites for a lot longer than Panjabis, (by many centuries). Also, I believe that racist attitudes and propaganda that characterised blacks as slow witted and dumb, made whites put their guard down a bit around them, and as a consequence, blacks got to be privy to all sorts of things that they managed to hide from 'Indians', especially Sikhs. So all the rapes, pedophilia, massacres, torture, murder and violence (inflicted on males and females) were known about by these people (including some vague understanding about the existence of 'secret societies'), whilst the whites hid that from us really well, portraying themselves as paragons of virtue, which many apnay gullibly swallowed, not knowing the full truth behind the façade. 

I think the legacy and brutality of slavery toughened them up, and that they knew full well what was at stake from their people's longstanding history with europeans.  The early attitude of whites to nonwhite immigrants really reflected what you'd expect to find on a plantation, with physical and verbal attacks predicated on a sense of innate superiority. Blacks had been fighting this for a long while (and still are), and knew what they were facing from the get go. 

Many Panjabis on the other hand, didn't fight for their freedom and accepted subjugation under the british. This isn't true for everyone though, and those that did, independent-minded, freedom loving people like Bhai Maharaj Singh ji, Sohan Singh Bhakna, Kartar Singh Sarabha, Udham Singh and many others, are heroes to people like myself. But it must be said that hordes of apnay (despite being armed) toed the line in their own homeland and curiously fought many battles for the very people who had subjugated them. This tells us a lot about prevalent mentalities (often described as 'docile' by goray). 

I think those early immigrant blacks prioritised their personal liberty, safety and freedom, knowing full well what evils could be perpetrated upon them based on their own ongoing and recent history. They strongly objected to, and resisted, the treatment meted out to them. Most Panjabis (well apnay more than sullay) prioritised economic considerations and (I believe) still retained that servile, colonial mentality pushed on them post-annexation - but it must be said: some Panjabis, (more so 2nd generation) did fight goray here (despite being outnumbered), and fiercely too, and in many of these conflicts goray came off the worse, which made them think twice about attacking again. 

I think also many apnay were in shock too, they probably never expected all the racism and attacks (physical, psychological and verbal) and state collusion in this (especially by the police and tories), because colonial brainwashing meant many thought the sun shone out of goray's bhunds.    

Afro Carribeans not only threw off their opressors, they took over. So their emotional legacy is different than those in america. 

[Premi5]

12 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

 

One reason I think those Caribbean blacks fought harder was because the experiences of slavery was still in their collective consciousness, and frankly they have had a lot of brutal experiences with whites that (understandably) made them suspicious of them. Remember, the Caribbean people interacted with whites for a lot longer than Panjabis, (by many centuries). Also, I believe that racist attitudes and propaganda that characterised blacks as slow witted and dumb, made whites put their guard down a bit around them, and as a consequence, blacks got to be privy to all sorts of things that they managed to hide from 'Indians', especially Sikhs. So all the rapes, pedophilia, massacres, torture, murder and violence (inflicted on males and females) were known about by these people (including some vague understanding about the existence of 'secret societies'), whilst the whites hid that from us really well, portraying themselves as paragons of virtue, which many apnay gullibly swallowed, not knowing the full truth behind the façade. 

I think the legacy and brutality of slavery toughened them up, and that they knew full well what was at stake from their people's longstanding history with europeans.  The early attitude of whites to nonwhite immigrants really reflected what you'd expect to find on a plantation, with physical and verbal attacks predicated on a sense of innate superiority. Blacks had been fighting this for a long while (and still are), and knew what they were facing from the get go. 

Many Panjabis on the other hand, didn't fight for their freedom and accepted subjugation under the british. This isn't true for everyone though, and those that did, independent-minded, freedom loving people like Bhai Maharaj Singh ji, Sohan Singh Bhakna, Kartar Singh Sarabha, Udham Singh and many others, are heroes to people like myself. But it must be said that hordes of apnay (despite being armed) toed the line in their own homeland and curiously fought many battles for the very people who had subjugated them. This tells us a lot about prevalent mentalities (often described as 'docile' by goray). 

I think those early immigrant blacks prioritised their personal liberty, safety and freedom, knowing full well what evils could be perpetrated upon them based on their own ongoing and recent history. They strongly objected to, and resisted, the treatment meted out to them. Most Panjabis (well apnay more than sullay) prioritised economic considerations and (I believe) still retained that servile, colonial mentality pushed on them post-annexation - but it must be said: some Panjabis, (more so 2nd generation) did fight goray here (despite being outnumbered), and fiercely too, and in many of these conflicts goray came off the worse, which made them think twice about attacking again. 

I think also many apnay were in shock too, they probably never expected all the racism and attacks (physical, psychological and verbal) and state collusion in this (especially by the police and tories), because colonial brainwashing meant many thought the sun shone out of goray's bhunds.    

I think you make a lot of good points, was very interesting to read this post. 

I wonder how much language barrier also was a factor for Punjabi immigrants compared with the Caribbean immigrants ?

 

[dallysingh101]

4 hours ago, Premi5 said:

I wonder how much language barrier also was a factor for Punjabi immigrants compared with the Caribbean immigrants ?

Even with the Panjabis that could speak english, the working class indigenous thought their accents were 'bud-bud-ding-ding' hilarious. Like this:

They'd be falling over themselves laughing whilst copying the accent. Still happens but not as openly. 

[GurjantGnostic]

2 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Even with the Panjabis that could speak english, the working class indigenous thought their accents were 'bud-bud-ding-ding' hilarious. Like this:

They'd be falling over themselves laughing whilst copying the accent. Still happens but not as openly. 

Sort of a tangent, but only the bretonic Welsh are indigenous there. 

[dallysingh101]

1 minute ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Sort of a tangent, but only the bretonic Welsh are indigenous there. 

Not surprised. 

[Premi5]

7 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Even with the Panjabis that could speak english, the working class indigenous thought their accents were 'bud-bud-ding-ding' hilarious. Like this:

They'd be falling over themselves laughing whilst copying the accent. Still happens but not as openly. 

Not just the working classes

all population

Wiki says Peter Sellers had a private education