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Sikhs in Poverty and Future of Panjab


Kau89r8
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You guys are criticizing Sikh charity organizations for helping out people who are not Sikhs. But here is what you fail to realize: if those organizations focused strictly on Sikhs, they would raise only a tiny fraction of the money that they currently are able to raise (in particular, they would raise much less money from Sikhs than they currently raise).

When an organization is seen to be helping all kinds of people, it makes others want to donate to it. When it is seen to be helping only Sikhs, it is viewed as a fringe organization supporting fringe causes.

 

Anyway, regardless of the choices that various charity organizations make, the amount of benefit to the Sikh community would end up being the same. It is what it is.

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3 hours ago, Kau89r8 said:

I meant the 'decolonization Sikh academics who also happen to be woke liberal sjw, and whitewash Sikhi...and ironically they are the ones that been colonized by liberalism with their woke politics and bring Sikhi into it

I 100% agree with what you said.

 

 

I hope you realize that the "woke liberal sjw" people who you are are always railing against are the people who are most likely to defend the rights of Sikhs to practice their faith openly and freely (i.e., keep their kesh, wear dastars, wear the panj kakkars, etc., and be accommodated by their employers to do so).

The "non-woke" people tend to think that fringe groups like the Sikhs should go back to wear they came from if they don't want to live like the "mainstream."

But for some reason, people like you want to spend your time complaining about those who, whatever faults they may have, are generally our strongest allies.

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21 minutes ago, californiasardar1 said:

But for some reason, people like you want to spend your time complaining about those who, whatever faults they may have, are generally our strongest allies.

The experience of UK Sikhs who've been trying to combat the targeted grooming of Sikh females says otherwise. These lefty types turned a blind eye to that, I don't think they are as strong an ally as you think. 

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5 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

The experience of UK Sikhs who've been trying to combat the targeted grooming of Sikh females says otherwise. These lefty types turned a blind eye to that, I don't think they are as strong an ally as you think. 

 

Okay, in what sense did they turn a blind eye? Are you referring to a failure to identify the grooming gangs as coming primarily from the Muslim community, or something more than that?

 

UK Sikhs take a lot of things for granted because the mainstream British community has (at this point) largely accepted them, and because their population density makes it possible to have some political influence.

 

In places like the US, the Sikhs are in a much more precarious situation. If you try to argue to someone that, for example, a Sikh police officer should be able to wear a turban and maintain a beard, the vast majority of the public will think asking for such an exemption is completely absurd and that it is ridiculous to accommodate some tiny, fringe group of people who they have never heard of. Most people will voice opinions along the lines of "if they can't conform to the dress code, they should find a different job." Do you know the type of people who are (by far) the most likely to come out and say that that's not right and that a Sikh in that situation should be accommodated? The leftists who you people are so quick to deride.

"Wokeness" has its excesses, but "woke" people are generally much greater allies to minority communities like Sikhs than the right-wing majoritarian communities that for some reason you guys don't seem concerned about.

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22 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

If you can't see how colonisation impacted on hordes of the panths thinking, I think you're seriously missing the point. Sikhs knew that they need to protect and look after the panth's priorities prior to this.

If we had the wherewithal to help gairh-Sikhs (and even then not foolishly helping people/communities who are deeply inimical to us but show a façade that dimwitted people fall for), we should, but we aren't in that position. 

Panjab's economy is a joke, we've got ample wealth there but people back home have timidly normalised and accepted corruption now. As they commonly say: 'Ehdhaan sadha challda'. We don't have cash cows like natural gas, oil or minerals to bring in wealth from outside like some of the communities that apnay help!, so we have limited resources. Even when we help out, it's a show, very rarely does anyone talk about helping truly marginalised and oppressed people like the natives of America/Canada/Australia etc.   Probably because it wouldn't feed their egos like what they do does, and wouldn't play as well to mainstream media. 

Colonisation is a big issue for Sikhs because many retards in our quom celebrate their own subjugation, and think fighting for other people's causes (and that too, people who have suppressed and subjugated us) is right. This is the antecedent of the type of stupid thinking that has people ignoring the communities own needs and jumping on other bandwagons.   On top of this, there a global movement going on right now to confront the evils and impact of white colonialism and imperialism, and many of our lot are too slow to even grasp that, looking like docile apologists for this. 

I was reading something on the internet and came across this article and thought it may be of some interest to everyone here regarding their perspective on the impact of brutalities of colonisation upon India and its people.  Here is the link:-

 

https://www.myindiamyglory.com/2019/03/10/atrocities-on-indian-women-and-india-by-british-during-their-rule/

 

 

10 Mar 2019 — Raped Indian women were forcefully made prostitutes by British Christians. Prostitution houses were set up by the Britishers in 350 

 

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And people want to talk about poverty, look at how India was stripped of wealth. Here 2800 silver bars were taken for ww2 but didn't make it back here. Now that they've found it, look at what they are doing with it. The pillaging is still going on.   

 

Treasure from the deep: Thousands of silver bars that were meant to fund Britain's WWII effort but were sunk by German U-boat FINALLY reach their destination - and will be sold as coins

  • Merchant ship carrying silver from India for the war effort was sunk in 1941
  • Its cargo of 2,800 bars of silver has sat on the bed of the Atlantic ever since
  • Record-breaking bid to salvage the silver from three miles down a success
  • The Royal Mint is now making the metal into coins to remember the tragedy

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2596785/Thousands-silver-bars-sunken-WWII-ship-sold-coins.html

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5 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

I think you imagine some sort of paradise here. Sikhs have fought and asserted themselves since the 70s here. Facing violent attacks, blatant racism at work and on the streets. If Sikhs have a right to wear dastaars, it's because people fought and agitated for that right. If Sikhs have a good rep, its because of the previous generations moral code and work ethic and even impressive trade skills - which was the first point of contact between working Sikhs and the indigenous working class. So no, those of us who lived through this don't take this for granted, and given the increasingly open re-acceptance of racist behaviour here (not least fortified by the globally influential rhetoric of white Americans and their orange leader), we are also aware of the fact that things can very easily slip backwards here, and some suspect that that process has already begun. 

The insidious nature of the hidden antiSikh agenda here means that apnay are tolerated as long as they fall line and act in a docile fashion. Make noise about grooming and 1984 etc. and you're very quickly on the intelligence services hot list. 

Not only did the police turn a blind eye to grooming to the point where adults could park outside schools and groom girls, they also villainised any Sikhs trying to combat this, blacklisted from jobs, given disproportionate prison sentences, using the media to portray Sikhs as the 'trouble makers', enacting policies in the social services that pretty much delivered vulnerable girls to predators. Even now, they knowingly obfuscate the issue as an 'asian' one when they know full well exactly which 'asians' are disproportionately overrepresented in these cases.    Leftys are most guilty of this, even to the point the previous Labour leader sacked one his own councilors for daring to speak up against the rampant grooming in her constituency. This lefty indifference to vulnerable working class females played a big part in the rightward lurch, as people got fed up with it. That's why now, people who have for generations voted left, are now voting tories in droves. The leftys failed them and us, and are culpable for the current state of affairs. 

 

Like I said, Sikhs fought for their rights here, and some still continue to do so, and are targeted by the authorities and police.  'Wokeness' is now becoming a rallying cry for racists who are determined to continue with a system that is pretty much a rigged game against others. Lefty tactics have failed. 

Leftys are idiots who claim to speak for minorities when it is to their advantage. It was stupidity from their side that led to the growth and re-emergence of the far right. The imbalance of their thinking led to reactive rightward lurch we are seeing.  And no, those of us who are intimately familiar with the right-wing aren't unconcerned about it. 

I never said anything about life for Sikhs in the UK in the 70s, I was talking about the present day. I understand and respect the struggles that you all went through to get to the position where you are today. But I hope you all don't lose sight of the fact that the freedom and status that Sikhs enjoy in the UK today is very far from the norm. Sikhs in the US today are fighting battles that were settled in the UK decades ago (and without the benefit of a population density that gives Sikhs in the UK at least some visibility and political sway). But forget about the US. You don't have to go that far, you can just cross the English channel and see how precarious the position of Sikhs is in continental Europe.

Thanks for giving details about the grooming issue. Do you think this had to do with Labour being more concerned about the Muslim vote (as Muslims former a larger voting block than Sikhs) or political correctness? Or both? I concede that leftists sometimes go to far with political correctness and "canceling" in order to try to show how "fair" and "unbigoted" they are.

I am not going to question your take on the whole grooming issue. You know more about that than I do. But that seems to be a very specific situation in the UK. I stand by my general point that left-leaning people are by far the most likely to support the rights of vulnerable minorities (which is the category that Sikhs fall under almost everywhere).

 

I don't buy your point about a backlash to "wokeness" at all. I don't think that that is what is causing the growing popularity of far-right movements. The way information is shared and distorted today is radically different from what was the norm not very long ago, and that has been the game-changer that has led to today's division and polarization.

You seem to think that if the "woke" people would just be quiet, the racists would not have a "rallying cry". That is simply not true. First of all, those people will ALWAYS find something to complain about. (That has certainly been true throughout American history. If it has been less true in UK history, that is probably because the white British majority did not feel threatened by a sizable minority until relatively recently. See my second point.) Second of all, the complaints of the more hardcore right-wing racists increasingly resonate with the more "passive" racists as the majority community diminishes in size and feels more threatened. And third of all, as I alluded to before, today's media/information landscape will allow for any complaints to blow up and go viral.

 

Any time anyone from the non-majority community asks for anything, no matter how reasonable, there is going to be a backlash from the majority community. And in many instances, the non-majority community doesn't even have ask for anything or complain about anything to provoke a backlash. Their mere existence is enough. This is what history has shown us.

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4 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

And people want to talk about poverty, look at how India was stripped of wealth. Here 2800 silver bars were taken for ww2 but didn't make it back here. Now that they've found it, look at what they are doing with it. The pillaging is still going on.   

 

Treasure from the deep: Thousands of silver bars that were meant to fund Britain's WWII effort but were sunk by German U-boat FINALLY reach their destination - and will be sold as coins

  • Merchant ship carrying silver from India for the war effort was sunk in 1941
  • Its cargo of 2,800 bars of silver has sat on the bed of the Atlantic ever since
  • Record-breaking bid to salvage the silver from three miles down a success
  • The Royal Mint is now making the metal into coins to remember the tragedy

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2596785/Thousands-silver-bars-sunken-WWII-ship-sold-coins.html

There is a law apparently that allows a 'finders keepers losers weepers' edict  so the merchant company had the right to enjoy their find. 

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