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4 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

No one can force one to overuse the water on your land.

However, if the new hybrid seed from Mexico provided a greater yield, but it was more water intensive then any farmer's concern about depleting water table could be overriden.

Well, what's the excuse for the apparent casual attitude by farmers now? (I say this knowing full well that water has been siphoned off since the 80s at least).

That 'green revolution' looks like an experiment on Panjab that failed because it wasn't sustainable. Developing seeds with a high requirement for laboratory manufactured fertilizers, and high resistance to pesticides as well as abnormal levels of 'thirst' wasn't ever going to end well. 

Why are Panjabi farmers so slow to develop with things like vertical farming? Related to what Chatanga said, I remember meeting an Israeli about 15/16 years ago, and he was telling me about how Israelis had developed a watering system via pipes (being in a desert and that) and had minutely figured out the absolute minimal  amount of water to use to make good crops (can't remember what they were growing?) What the hell are all those 'Agricultural Universities' doing? I think every last one of you knows that unless we start to rapidly modernise and get creative, we are going to get f**ked, and that too within a few decades. 

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These woke people will also be curtailing gun rights which may lead to restrictions on kirpaans.  And woke ppl support beadbi like inter religious and gay marriages. And may enforce them on relig

Unfortunately in this forum, some of us been posting about this issues for a while.... I don't mind if you want to help others, but then stop operating under 'Sikh charities' when Sikhi is not yo

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25 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Well, what's the excuse for the apparent casual attitude by farmers now? (I say this knowing full well that water has been siphoned off since the 80s at least).

That 'green revolution' looks like an experiment on Panjab that failed because it wasn't sustainable. Developing seeds with a high requirement for laboratory manufactured fertilizers, and high resistance to pesticides as well as abnormal levels of 'thirst' wasn't ever going to end well. 

Why are Panjabi farmers so slow to develop with things like vertical farming? Related to what Chatanga said, I remember meeting an Israeli about 15/16 years ago, and he was telling me about how Israelis had developed a watering system via pipes (being in a desert and that) and had minutely figured out the absolute minimal  amount of water to use to make good crops (can't remember what they were growing?) What the hell are all those 'Agricultural Universities' doing? I thik every last one of you knows that unless we start to rapidly modernise and get creative, we are going to get f**ked, and that too within a few decades. 

Amen bro. Green revolution was putting the zip tie on the neck, what we see now is pulling it tight. 

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7 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Well, what's the excuse for the apparent casual attitude by farmers now? (I say this knowing full well that water has been siphoned off since the 80s at least).

That 'green revolution' looks like an experiment on Panjab that failed because it wasn't sustainable. Developing seeds with a high requirement for laboratory manufactured fertilizers, and high resistance to pesticides as well as abnormal levels of 'thirst' wasn't ever going to end well. 

Why are Panjabi farmers so slow to develop with things like vertical farming? Related to what Chatanga said, I remember meeting an Israeli about 15/16 years ago, and he was telling me about how Israelis had developed a watering system via pipes (being in a desert and that) and had minutely figured out the absolute minimal  amount of water to use to make good crops (can't remember what they were growing?) What the hell are all those 'Agricultural Universities' doing? I think every last one of you knows that unless we start to rapidly modernise and get creative, we are going to get f**ked, and that too within a few decades. 

The probability is that the Green Revolution in it's initial years provided great yields. 

What do people do when they find a successful method that gets results? They do more of it and then increase the intensity.

If one person sees the another person be successful they try to mimic that template. 

In a place like Punjab, like a lot of other places, people tend to copy each other. 

Why you think going to University and getting an education is so important amongst our people?

The Israeli water use is a result of necessity because it is an arid desert area. It is the necessity that creates the innovation.

Punjab is a far more greener fertile place. We have a wet season called the Monsoon that replenishes the land. There is going to be less incentive to innovate in this instance. 

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4 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

The probability is that the Green Revolution in it's initial years provided great yields. 

What do people do when they find a successful method that gets results? They do more of it and then increase the intensity.

If one person sees the another person be successful they try to mimic that template. 

In a place like Punjab, like a lot of other places, people tend to copy each other. 

Why you think going to University and getting an education is so important amongst our people?

The Israeli water use is a result of necessity because it is an arid desert area. It is the necessity that creates the innovation.

Punjab is a far more greener fertile place. We have a wet season called the Monsoon that replenishes the land. There is going to be less incentive to innovate in this instance. 

New methods of farming are being taught to foreigners by Indians resulting in a ten fold increase in yields. Yet India is lagging behind the rest of the world. These methods make optimal use of land whilst utilising fewer raw materials including soil and water.  Freed up land could be put to use for industrialisation, animal husbandry etc.

With India's increasing population and under nourished children it is of paramount importance that this be alleviated through better farming methods.  

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On 7/5/2021 at 11:32 AM, Suchi said:

With India's increasing population and under nourished children it is of paramount importance that this be alleviated through better farming methods.  

What's weird though is that you go to Panjab and it looks like about 80/90% of middle aged adults have obesity issues?

 

On 7/5/2021 at 7:20 AM, Ranjeet01 said:

The probability is that the Green Revolution in it's initial years provided great yields. 

It did, this is common knowledge. My point is why there is a complete lack of forethought, dynamism and adaptation; and this is even more strange when you realise that there are so many agricultural universities out there?

 

Quote

Punjab is a far more greener fertile place. We have a wet season called the Monsoon that replenishes the land. There is going to be less incentive to innovate in this instance. 

The whole issue of diverting waters has been a known thing since I was a child. The sinking water table. This was a part of what kicked off the K'stani lehar. Yet farmers have continued to act like this isn't happening. It's strange. You would have thought that at least they would have sent people to study other more effective methods from abroad to counter this. Or developed their own techniques/technology in the unis. Again I'm completely baffled as to what these 'universities' actually contribute to the industry that they purport to service and study? 

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48 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

What's weird though is that you go to Panjab and it looks like about 80/90% of middle aged adults have obesity issues?

 

It did, this is common knowledge. My point is why there is a complete lack of forethought, dynamism and adaptation; and this is even more strange when you realise that there are so many agricultural universities out there?

 

The whole issue of diverting waters has been a known thing since I was a child. The sinking water table. This was a part of what kicked off the K'stani lehar. Yet farmers have continued to act like this isn't happening. It's strange. You would have thought that at least they would have sent people to study other more effective methods from abroad to counter this. Or developed their own techniques/technology in the unis. Again I'm completely baffled as to what these 'universities' actually contribute to the industry that they purport to service and study? 

Poor food quality makes one fat yet malnourished. 

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34 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Poor food quality makes one fat yet malnourished. 

Yep, you can see this phenomena in the lower white working class here when you go to frozen food specialist called Icelands in England. 

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On 7/8/2021 at 3:00 PM, dallysingh101 said:

Yep, you can see this phenomena in the lower white working class here when you go to frozen food specialist called Icelands in England. 

Yes, we need a high protein and fat diet to burn fat, but we've been sold on a high carb, high sugar diet for decades. Hence why these are also much cheaper as it keeps the pharma industry in profit due to poor nutrition.

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On 7/8/2021 at 1:37 PM, dallysingh101 said:

 

The whole issue of diverting waters has been a known thing since I was a child. The sinking water table. This was a part of what kicked off the K'stani lehar. Yet farmers have continued to act like this isn't happening. It's strange. You would have thought that at least they would have sent people to study other more effective methods from abroad to counter this. Or developed their own techniques/technology in the unis. Again I'm completely baffled as to what these 'universities' actually contribute to the industry that they purport to service and study? 

It's not industry that doesn't want to innovate. It's the Unions that are heavily invested in protecting their financial interests at the cost of the nation's health.  The whole operation seems geared to destroy Punjab as is happening. 

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16 hours ago, Suchi said:

It's not industry that doesn't want to innovate. It's the Unions that are heavily invested in protecting their financial interests at the cost of the nation's health.  The whole operation seems geared to destroy Punjab as is happening. 

I don't doubt the strong antipathy towards Panjab (especially Sikhs), but I think there is definitely laziness towards innovation. Like I asked before, what are the umpteen agricultural universities of Panjab doing to develop the economy? 

Plus I think over reliance on agriculture could destroy Panjab because of the lack of robustness of the economy. We need a modern, diverse economy.   

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1 hour ago, dallysingh101 said:

I don't doubt the strong antipathy towards Panjab (especially Sikhs), but I think there is definitely laziness towards innovation. Like I asked before, what are the umpteen agricultural universities of Panjab doing to develop the economy? 

Plus I think over reliance on agriculture could destroy Panjab because of the lack of robustness of the economy. We need a modern, diverse economy.   

If there is one thing I learnt about academia, they are not there to develop economies

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1 hour ago, Ranjeet01 said:

If there is one thing I learnt about academia, they are not there to develop economies

You'd think that having umpteen universities dedicated to agriculture would have Panjab's agricultural industry a little bit more on the cutting edge.

Most of us come from rural backgrounds, you might not like the truth, but they are a bit 'conservative' about change. Often they resist and resent it. 

Those unis are probably useless because they've adopted the cronyism and nepotism back home has become famous for now (as opposed to encouraging and nurturing innovation and talent).  

Plus I think you're wrong, higher level academia is usually the frontline for developing people and ideas for economic change. Training people, exploring ideas, assessing current practices and developing new ones, developing strategies for the future. Projecting trends etc. At their best unis (in cooperation with other bodies) serve as think tanks and instruments for change. 

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Bottom line is Panjab needs to modernise its economy, and no one is going to help us do it. If anything we have a lot of antipathy towards Panjab, so we have to do it ourselves (and that too in the face of potential subterfuge). Central to this is a mind shift away from doing things like they done at present with all the cronyism, casteism, nepotism etc.

That's the only way Panjab will have a better future and alleviate poverty.

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2 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

You'd think that having umpteen universities dedicated to agriculture would have Panjab's agricultural industry a little bit more on the cutting edge.

Most of us come from rural backgrounds, you might not like the truth, but they are a bit 'conservative' about change. Often they resist and resent it. 

Those unis are probably useless because they've adopted the cronyism and nepotism back home has become famous for now (as opposed to encouraging and nurturing innovation and talent).  

Plus I think you're wrong, higher level academia is usually the frontline for developing people and ideas for economic change. Training people, exploring ideas, assessing current practices and developing new ones, developing strategies for the future. Projecting trends etc. At their best unis (in cooperation with other bodies) serve as think tanks and instruments for change. 

Higher Level Academia like in the west have become largely indoctrination camps.

All it develops as Nassim Nicholas Taleb calls them are I-Y-I , "Intellectual Yet Idiots"

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Higher Level Academia like in the west have become largely indoctrination camps.

All it develops as Nassim Nicholas Taleb calls them are I-Y-I , "Intellectual Yet Idiots"

 

 

Well maybe you should have higher expectations? Academia is only a part of any solution. You've said yourself that rural types will only get on board with anything that materially benefits them personally (a kind of super selfishness). There is an alternative, a vision that includes all the panth and not just a self-entitled section of it. That's actually a foundation of Sikhi from the very beginning. It's actually common sense. You've had a modern education, it shouldn't be that hard for you to grasp this???? Surely? We do not have to follow the western model! We can develop and adapt a Sikhicentric one. 

At the risk of offending, you seem to exemplify the very lack of imagination we are talking about. 

It's exactly this type of unimaginative thinking that's setting the whole panth back. With kirpa, (for me personally) I think seeing that photo of Badal Snr with the (now deceased) sullah policeman implicated in umpteen Sikh 'disappearances' told me everything I need to know about the people that continually voted him (and now his successor) in for selfish purposes. 

Are you petrified of change? What exactly is your problem with Panjab having a modern diverse economy and a more egalitarian socio-political perspective?  Is this a casteist outlook? 

Why do you have such low expectations for Sikhs?

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