How sikhs helped the jaats of bharatpur

[dallysingh101]

On 6/25/2021 at 8:43 PM, Suchi said:

Their aim is to bring a One World Religion that can be controlled artificially through AI. I have been subjected to its evils. 

What do you mean by this? 

[Suchi]

2 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

What do you mean by this? 

Communism/atheism so your soul can be taken stopping your reincarnation/ascension to God. 

But you must believe in it, agree to it. For that they can torture you using Directed Energy Weapons via Artificial Intelligence that can use all you data from your body - thoughts, feelings, state (sleeping, awake, breath rate, temp  etc). They can also control your body via direct thoughts,  signals to your brain to move your body or influence your thoughts. 

Hence your awareness is of paramount importance.

 

[GurjantGnostic]

27. Sutantar vicharna. Raaj Kaaj dian kamaan tae doosrae mutaa dia purshaan noo huk nahee daenaa –

Maintain independent rule. In the affairs of governing, do not give the power of religious authority to those of other faiths.

[shastarSingh]

 

[dallysingh101]

I'm baffled with jut politics. Only a couple of years ago, when these very same jaats of Haryana were rioting and blocking off the roads, Sikhs on this very forum were slating them for being lowlife scum. Fast forward to now, and there has been a volte face, and people are talking like the above.

Maintaining and getting Sikh numbers up is obviously important. But the people under discussion here are the descendants of the very same ones that didn't even show loyalty to their Panjabi heritage (let alone Sikhi) when they put themselves down as Hindi speakers around the Panjab Suba movement. 

Are most of these people converting out of economic/political expediency rather than any heartfelt conviction for Sikhi? If so, having half-hearted opportunist 'Sikhs' like that could easily come back to haunt us.

Or on the flipside, maybe this is the same way many juts of Panjab converted i.e. economic/political reasons? What do you think? 

[proactive]

16 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

I'm baffled with jut politics. Only a couple of years ago, when these very same jaats of Haryana were rioting and blocking off the roads, Sikhs on this very forum were slating them for being lowlife scum. Fast forward to now, and there has been a volte face, and people are talking like the above.

Maintaining and getting Sikh numbers up is obviously important. But the people under discussion here are the descendants of the very same ones that didn't even show loyalty to their Panjabi heritage (let alone Sikhi) when they put themselves down as Hindi speakers around the Panjab Suba movement. 

Are most of these people converting out of economic/political expediency rather than any heartfelt conviction for Sikhi? If so, having half-hearted opportunist 'Sikhs' like that could easily come back to haunt us.

Or on the flipside, maybe this is the same way many juts of Panjab converted i.e. economic/political reasons? What do you think? 

Agreed these Jaats are on the rougher end of the Jat spectrum but their interest in Sikhi seems genuine. Like Sikhs Jats they also have a perception of themselves as a people rather than a caste and as such they feel greater solidarity for all Jats then say a Dalit in Haryana would have with a Dalit in Punjab. This solidarity as well as the desire to progress economically and politically is what is pulling them towards Sikhi. 

Their role in the pre-1966 Punjab was not anti-Punjabi, they did not disown Punjabi like the Punjabi Hindus, their language was always Bagri and Haryanvi which were classed as Western Hindustani in British times and as dialects of Hindi after 1947. Bagri has in the last decade has been classed as a dialect of Punjabi and hence this has led to Punjabi becoming a majority in some parts of northern Haryana such as Fatehabad district. So your accusation is not true. 

There is absolutely nothing wrong in the mass conversion of a people for economical or political reasons. This is how all religions have progressed historically. Conversion through conviction only occurs in individuals or small groups. If the mass conversion occurs for economic or political reasons then within just one generation the new religion becomes so ingrained that it is unlikely that they would ever revert back to their old religion.

 

 

 

 

 

[Suchi]

53 minutes ago, proactive said:

 

Their role in the pre-1966 Punjab was not anti-Punjabi, they did not disown Punjabi like the Punjabi Hindus, their language was always Bagri and Haryanvi which were classed as Western Hindustani in British times and as dialects of Hindi after 1947. Bagri has in the last decade has been classed as a dialect of Punjabi and hence this has led to Punjabi becoming a majority in some parts of northern Haryana such as Fatehabad district. So your accusation is not true. 

 

 

 

 

 

You speak as though Punjabi does not belong to Hindus! They speak both Hindi and Punjabi - one as National language and other as Regional language.  In between there are many local languages and dialects. But they prefer to learn written Hindi due to wider use and it being closer to Sanskrit and their Shastras.  Punjabi wss popularised by Sikhs as the Granths are written in it, otherwise there would be little incentive in learning it. In fact failing to learn Hindi has probably led to the mass exodus of Sikhs abroad as they can't easily relocate within India. 

So your statement of disowning Punjabi is not quite correct. 

 

[Suchi]

1 hour ago, proactive said:

There is absolutely nothing wrong in the mass conversion of a people for economical or political reasons. This is how all religions have progressed historically. Conversion through conviction only occurs in individuals or small groups. If the mass conversion occurs for economic or political reasons then within just one generation the new religion becomes so ingrained that it is unlikely that they would ever revert back to their old religion.

 

 

 

 

 

A new religion or panth is created for all sorts of reasons, but is mostly due to a particular need or agenda that involves perceived injustices or economic/political reasons. 

Which means as soon as a new need is identified then a new panth will be created. As has already happened even within Sikhs due to so many disagreements and influences that are still unresolved. 

Before accepting new recruits you should be clear on the existing setup and aims of the panth and whether it is acceptable for the foreseeable future. 

Recent news demonstrates that it seems to have lost its raison d'etre by embracing the very group it was set up to defend against. 

 

 

 

[dallysingh101]

14 hours ago, proactive said:

Agreed these Jaats are on the rougher end of the Jat spectrum but their interest in Sikhi seems genuine. Like Sikhs Jats they also have a perception of themselves as a people rather than a caste and as such they feel greater solidarity for all Jats then say a Dalit in Haryana would have with a Dalit in Punjab. This solidarity as well as the desire to progress economically and politically is what is pulling them towards Sikhi. 

You say that, but that wasn't the impression you get when they were rioting last time, SIkh juts on this forum were sl@gging them off hardcore. 

I might be wrong but weren't there also killings of Sikhs in these regions post Indira's sending off? That's what I heard, but I might be wrong though. You seem to be better informed, is this true?

Quote

Their role in the pre-1966 Punjab was not anti-Punjabi, they did not disown Punjabi like the Punjabi Hindus, their language was always Bagri and Haryanvi which were classed as Western Hindustani in British times and as dialects of Hindi after 1947. Bagri has in the last decade has been classed as a dialect of Punjabi and hence this has led to Punjabi becoming a majority in some parts of northern Haryana such as Fatehabad district. So your accusation is not true. 

Okay I hope you're right and not trying to be some sort of PR agent for these people. 

 

Quote

There is absolutely nothing wrong in the mass conversion of a people for economical or political reasons. This is how all religions have progressed historically. Conversion through conviction only occurs in individuals or small groups. If the mass conversion occurs for economic or political reasons then within just one generation the new religion becomes so ingrained that it is unlikely that they would ever revert back to their old religion.

I hope so! The current situation in India for Sikhs in Panjab seems largely untenable. Spreading strongly outwards in India is something that needs to take place. But I don't know about your opinion of converts not reverting, or converting to something else. All the recent isaih conversions taking place points otherwise. 

[S1ngh]

On 6/28/2021 at 10:50 PM, Suchi said:

You speak as though Punjabi does not belong to Hindus! They speak both Hindi and Punjabi - one as National language and other as Regional language.  In between there are many local languages and dialects. But they prefer to learn written Hindi due to wider use and it being closer to Sanskrit and their Shastras.  Punjabi wss popularised by Sikhs as the Granths are written in it, otherwise there would be little incentive in learning it. In fact failing to learn Hindi has probably led to the mass exodus of Sikhs abroad as they can't easily relocate within India. 

So your statement of disowning Punjabi is not quite correct.