How sikhs helped the jaats of bharatpur

[shastarSingh]

Nice katha on the jaats of bharatpur by Mahakaal Gurdyal Singh

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=612587893465993&id=100041443626889

[proactive]

On 6/29/2021 at 2:26 PM, dallysingh101 said:

You say that, but that wasn't the impression you get when they were rioting last time, SIkh juts on this forum were sl@gging them off hardcore. 

I might be wrong but weren't there also killings of Sikhs in these regions post Indira's sending off? That's what I heard, but I might be wrong though. You seem to be better informed, is this true?

Okay I hope you're right and not trying to be some sort of PR agent for these people. 

 

I hope so! The current situation in India for Sikhs in Panjab seems largely untenable. Spreading strongly outwards in India is something that needs to take place. But I don't know about your opinion of converts not reverting, or converting to something else. All the recent isaih conversions taking place points otherwise. 

The Indian establishment has always seen the link up of Sikhs and Jaats in northern India as a threat. The Sikhs hold the border with Pakistan and the Jaats encircle the capital Delhi. Around the same time as the Sikhistan proposal, there was also a scheme that included floated by the East Punjab Maharajas to join with the Jaat states of Bharatpur, Dholpur and Alwar and to create a state between Lahore and Delhi called Jattistan. I know the name might give you a heart attack but that scheme would have created an untenable situation for both Pakistan which considered Lahore as vital to Pakistan and India which had Delhi as it's capital. So that situation although not carried out with the same vigour as Sikhistan has coloured the Indian govts view of both Sikh and Jaats. This is the reason why SYL was planned, so that there would always been a dispute ready to break any Sikh-Jaat unity. 

The Hindus who disowned Punjabi were the Hindus in present day Punjab and the Punjabi Hindu refugees who had been resettled in northern Haryana areas after 1947. Jaats have always been Baagri/Haryanvi speaking. Those who live with Sikhs in the border areas of Haryana with Punjab speak Punjabi and Haryanvi but the vast majority of Jaats speak Baagri/Haryanvi. 

All communities even the Dalits and Muslims took part in the Sikh genocide in 1984. I am not glossing over the fact that many Jaats also took part but we need to consider what is the best interests of the Panth now. I have mentioned before that many of the Kharkoos of the Majha area would have been descendants of those Chaudris who had joined in the mass murder of Sikhs under the Mughals and yet when the Khalsa took power while the Chaudris were punished, their families were allowed to live and later joined the Khalsa. We need pragmatism in the Panth today. 

The mass conversion of Jaats and with them the minor castes of their areas would negate all the anti-Sikh policies of the Indian govt since 1947. Sikhs would retain a majority in Punjab and would be a minority of over 30-35% in Haryana, at least 15% of Delhi and 20% of western UP and 50-60% of Ganganagar/Hanumangarh. This would also bring in sea change to the perception of Sikhism in the Indian mind. From being a Punjabi centric religion, we would have an almost equal Hindi speaking population. First Punjab, then the neighbouring states and then Northern India. From 25M we would go to 40M and when we hit 50-60M any Indian govt would never be able to repeat 1984 again. This may sound like wishful thinking but the potential of Jaat conversion to Sikhi offers that as a real possibility. 

[dallysingh101]

9 hours ago, proactive said:

. 

The Hindus who disowned Punjabi were the Hindus in present day Punjab and the Punjabi Hindu refugees who had been resettled in northern Haryana areas after 1947. Jaats have always been Baagri/Haryanvi speaking. Those who live with Sikhs in the border areas of Haryana with Punjab speak Punjabi and Haryanvi but the vast majority of Jaats speak Baagri/Haryanvi. 

All communities even the Dalits and Muslims took part in the Sikh genocide in 1984. I am not glossing over the fact that many Jaats also took part but we need to consider what is the best interests of the Panth now. I have mentioned before that many of the Kharkoos of the Majha area would have been descendants of those Chaudris who had joined in the mass murder of Sikhs under the Mughals and yet when the Khalsa took power while the Chaudris were punished, their families were allowed to live and later joined the Khalsa. We need pragmatism in the Panth today. 

The mass conversion of Jaats and with them the minor castes of their areas would negate all the anti-Sikh policies of the Indian govt since 1947. Sikhs would retain a majority in Punjab and would be a minority of over 30-35% in Haryana, at least 15% of Delhi and 20% of western UP and 50-60% of Ganganagar/Hanumangarh. This would also bring in sea change to the perception of Sikhism in the Indian mind. From being a Punjabi centric religion, we would have an almost equal Hindi speaking population. First Punjab, then the neighbouring states and then Northern India. From 25M we would go to 40M and when we hit 50-60M any Indian govt would never be able to repeat 1984 again. This may sound like wishful thinking but the potential of Jaat conversion to Sikhi offers that as a real possibility. 

So what about those Panjabis that did turn their back on their mother tongue/heritage? I presume a lot of them will now be trying to crawl up Sikhs ar5es. Do you seriously not see how having such disloyal people swell Sikh ranks could very easily backfire!! Can you not see how it could also be a mass infiltration of at best indifferent, at worst historically hostile people that could screw us over even more long term? We could have a 1000 KPS Gills or Badals from this in future. 

I full well understand how we need to shift the geo-political scenario in Panjab and the surrounding areas (I really do), but what will we be looking at? 'Converts' who will replicate what the majority juts of Panjab have done and created a bankrupt and corrupt SGPC and dragged Sikh polity largely into oblivion? Fights over Gurdwara funds? More depressing apartheid and oppression of Mazhbhis at village level (which I'm sure takes place now anyway) but with the added disgrace of having Sikhi associated with it. Will Panjabis roll out the whisky-for-votes schemes to these new regions as well? Don't you think we at least need to face up to, and address some of our own shyte before we try and convert others in an unstructured way? Would they theoretically support a Khalistan movement, or would they infiltrate it and bring it down? I understand what you are saying, but you don't seem to be factoring these people's history, and our own state into the equation. You wouldn't want to punish any b@stards that raped and killed Sikhs post Indira's farewell? 

It's not a bad idea to swell our numbers but this way seems a tad desperate and poorly thought out.

[chatanga1]

On 6/28/2021 at 1:18 PM, dallysingh101 said:

I'm baffled with jut politics. Only a couple of years ago, when these very same jaats of Haryana were rioting and blocking off the roads, Sikhs on this very forum were slating them for being lowlife scum. Fast forward to now, and there has been a volte face, and people are talking like the above.

 

I understand your postition on this, but in Sri Gur Panth Parkash, the Dal Khalsa saw the need to align with those who threatened our very existence at times, like Zakariya Khan and Mir Mannu. Although it's not exactly the same situation but where these people's needs can be strengthened with our own and/or vice versa, then its somthing that should be considered.

 

On 6/29/2021 at 6:50 AM, Suchi said:

You speak as though Punjabi does not belong to Hindus! They speak both Hindi and Punjabi - one as National language and other as Regional language. 

So your statement of disowning Punjabi is not quite correct.

 

Panjab belongs to the people of it's soil. Panjab is our motherland. That can include HIndus, Muslims, Sikhs and Christians. But who would strike a dagger into their own mother's heart? The Muslims showed their disdain for Panjab when they prefered some alien hybrid bihari language over their own mother tongue in the 1850s. A century later, the HIndus displayed the same disloyalty to Panjab when they returned Hindi as their mother tongue. Both these two religious groups are traitors to Panjab.

 

12 hours ago, proactive said:

The Hindus who disowned Punjabi were the Hindus in present day Punjab and the Punjabi Hindu refugees who had been resettled in northern Haryana areas after 1947. Jaats have always been Baagri/Haryanvi speaking. Those who live with Sikhs in the border areas of Haryana with Punjab speak Punjabi and Haryanvi but the vast majority of Jaats speak Baagri/Haryanvi.

 

An excellent post and great info. Just as the Sikhs of panjabi-speaking areas didn't want hindi foisted upon them. neither did the Haranyvis want Panjabi foisted upon them. We can't deny them the same right we want.

The dialect of Baagri Panjabi, is probably to us in the UK how geordies speak english, not very pleasant to listen to lol. I have some faroff relatives who speak that dialect and its not very easy to understand. Its spoken more towards the central part of Haryana I believe. Sometimes I have heard elders say "bagar boli" when someone says something they don't understand.

 

The main Hindu resistance came from the Hindus of Majha and Doaba. Cities like Amritsar with a majority HIndu community returned HIndi as their mother tongue. In Doaba, the Chamars under the banner of the aad dharmi movement returned hindi under the influence of the Congress parety.

 

2 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

So what about those Panjabis that did turn their back on their mother tongue/heritage? I presume a lot of them will now be trying to crawl up Sikhs ar5es.

 

Those Panjabis are still untrustworthy - the RSS cadres and the Dera Ballan movement. But it's not them we want to reach out to. They will never align themselves with the Sikhs, too full of hankaar and krodh more than anything.

[Suchi]

1 hour ago, chatanga1 said:

 

Panjab belongs to the people of it's soil. Panjab is our motherland. That can include HIndus, Muslims, Sikhs and Christians. But who would strike a dagger into their own mother's heart? The Muslims showed their disdain for Panjab when they prefered some alien hybrid bihari language over their own mother tongue in the 1850s. A century later, the HIndus displayed the same disloyalty to Panjab when they returned Hindi as their mother tongue. Both these two religious groups are traitors to Panjab.

The traitors of the motherland are those who have forsaken Sanskrit on which the Granths are based. And deny 2/3rds of its teachings. As well as many others including those who betrayed Banda Bahadur (by aligning with the Moghuls who he was recruited to fight) and who was the first person to secure true victory for Indians, as well as those who sided with the British for a few bucks in the 1857 First War of Independence.  

And there are those traitors who deny their Hindu roots that even the Gurus did not deny. Perhaps recruiting those to 'get the numbers up', who neither understand these roots or belong to an alien culture is largely to blame. And hence the widespread ignorance within the panth that is in a flux and engaged in petty infighting and ripe for destruction (via drugs and alcohol) and conversion. And which refuses to apply simple remedies because they're not from the Granths!

Punjabi is not the only language of Punjab. My mother's mother tongue was Multani a language of Multan which is now in Pakistan. She had to learn Punjabi after marriage and move to Ludhiana as she only studied Hindi and English at school in Delhi.

Anyway with the mass conversion of Sikhs into Christianity they will probably be less interest in Punjabi when English could be considered their mother tongue. It is this menace from within you should be shielding against. 

In 500 years where is the body of literature, intellectual rigour and philosophical reasoning, art and creativity, architectural and historic buildings that go to mark and sustain a culture? 

[S1ngh]

On 7/1/2021 at 10:53 AM, Suchi said:

The traitors of the motherland are those who have forsaken Sanskrit on which the Granths are based. And deny 2/3rds of its teachings. As well as many others including those who betrayed Banda Bahadur (by aligning with the Moghuls who he was recruited to fight) and who was the first person to secure true victory for Indians, as well as those who sided with the British for a few bucks in the 1857 First War of Independence.  

And there are those traitors who deny their Hindu roots that even the Gurus did not deny. Perhaps recruiting those to 'get the numbers up', who neither understand these roots or belong to an alien culture is largely to blame. And hence the widespread ignorance within the panth that is in a flux and engaged in petty infighting and ripe for destruction (via drugs and alcohol) and conversion. And which refuses to apply simple remedies because they're not from the Granths!

Punjabi is not the only language of Punjab. My mother's mother tongue was Multani a language of Multan which is now in Pakistan. She had to learn Punjabi after marriage and move to Ludhiana as she only studied Hindi and English at school in Delhi.

Anyway with the mass conversion of Sikhs into Christianity they will probably be less interest in Punjabi when English could be considered their mother tongue. It is this menace from within you should be shielding against. 

In 500 years where is the body of literature, intellectual rigour and philosophical reasoning, art and creativity, architectural and historic buildings that go to mark and sustain a culture? 

Brother, I have been telling you that this is SikhSangat not AryaSamaj forum.

[Suchi]

48 minutes ago, S1ngh said:

Brother, I have been telling you that this is SikhSangat not AryaSamaj forum.

Punjab does not belong to the Sikhs that they can do whatever they want! There seems to be a habit of using outsiders to resolve their problems rather than looking within (themselves) as to what is lacking. 

And despite claiming to be free of caste they are looking to recruit only from a particular caste. So how are they able to claim they are Not Hindu?

 

[Suchi]

4 hours ago, Rajasthani said:

There was No India At that time.. It was Just independent small Propserous Kingdoms 

And Sanskrit is alien.language to South Indian North east Indian So It mean they are too Traitor... 

1857 was not first war of independece for sikhs First independence war was in 1847-1849  

And 1857 was just small Mutinity and Nepali Gurkhas rajputs dogras Were supporting British and That mutinity too Was Only limited to North india ( mainly UP Bihar ) so No chance of winning 

read Ambedkar view on 1857 

 

 

Where do you think Christopher Columbus was looking for 'India' in the 15th Century? Though I take your point that there was no central administration responsible for it as a single country. That screams out there should be in order to avoid constant conflict. 

According to existing understanding Sanskrit is the mother of all languages. Whilst I understand the arguments made that Tamil is superior/older etc than Sanskrit my contacts there complain if their not being taught Hindi and hence feel excluded from the rest of India. No doubt it is the Xtian missionaries playing their usual dirty games. However there are places where Sanskrit is being revived with astounding results. Perhaps this should be the language that unites us all. Here is a description of a whole village in Karnataka speaking in Sanskrit. 

https://www.myindiamyglory.com/2017/12/10/mattur-sanskrit-speaking-village-where-ancient-meets-modern/

Despite the Mutiny being confined to certain districts the East India Company felt threatened enough to hand over the reins to the British govt as a direct result. 

 

 

 

 

[intrigued]

On 7/1/2021 at 1:53 PM, Suchi said:

Anyway with the mass conversion of Sikhs into Christianity they will probably be less interest in Punjabi when English could be considered their mother tongue. It is this menace from within you should be shielding against. 

Rest of his post aside, this is a valid point

[chatanga1]

On 7/1/2021 at 6:53 PM, Suchi said:

The traitors of the motherland are those who have forsaken Sanskrit on which the Granths are based. And deny 2/3rds of its teachings.

 

So we are in agreement about the Hindus and Muslims being the traitors of Panjab.

 

On 7/1/2021 at 6:53 PM, Suchi said:

As well as many others including those who betrayed Banda Bahadur (by aligning with the Moghuls who he was recruited to fight) and who was the first person to secure true victory for Indians, as well as those who sided with the British for a few bucks in the 1857 First War of Independence. 

 

Many Hindus turned out to fight against Baba Banda Bahadur. The same ones who attacked the Guru. The same ones who claim to be Hindus.

1857 was not any war of independence. It was a mutiny against the British, based on religious sensibilities. Only in the last few years have some misguided people started calling it a war of independence.

 

And "for a few bucks," the poorbias sided with the British and helped them win Calcutta and then the same poorbia hindus and muslims helped the British destroy the last indigenous rule of the Sikhs in Panjab. So if you REALLY want to talk about a few bucks, at least go to the beginning please.

 

 

On 7/1/2021 at 6:53 PM, Suchi said:

And there are those traitors who deny their Hindu roots that even the Gurus did not deny. Perhaps recruiting those to 'get the numbers up', who neither understand these roots or belong to an alien culture is largely to blame. And hence the widespread ignorance within the panth that is in a flux and engaged in petty infighting and ripe for destruction (via drugs and alcohol) and conversion. And which refuses to apply simple remedies because they're not from the Granths!

 

Again, I agree with you. I myself don't understand why Sikh people deny their hindu roots. We were once Hindus. We should not be afraid or embarrassed about that. We don't need to hide it. But if we really want to talk about traitors, shouldn't we begin with those who KNEW they were hindus and still sided those belonging to "an alien culture" AGAINST those who did not deny their Hindu roots?

 

On 7/1/2021 at 6:53 PM, Suchi said:

Punjabi is not the only language of Punjab. My mother's mother tongue was Multani a language of Multan which is now in Pakistan. She had to learn Punjabi after marriage and move to Ludhiana as she only studied Hindi and English at school in Delhi. 

 

Multani/Seraiki is a dialect of Panjabi to begin with. But in some countries you do get languages which are spoken by minorities ie in the UK, we have Gaelic, Welsh and Cornish. This doesn't really make any difference about the overall status of the language in the UK - English.

 

On 7/1/2021 at 6:53 PM, Suchi said:

Anyway with the mass conversion of Sikhs into Christianity they will probably be less interest in Punjabi when English could be considered their mother tongue. It is this menace from within you should be shielding against. 

In 500 years where is the body of literature, intellectual rigour and philosophical reasoning, art and creativity, architectural and historic buildings that go to mark and sustain a culture? 

 

Christian parchar is still done in Panjabi in Panjab 180 years after Christianity entered Panjab in any serious form. So if these peoples language status has not altered one iota in 180 years do you seriously beleive there is an immediate threat?

 

On 7/1/2021 at 6:53 PM, Suchi said:

In 500 years where is the body of literature, intellectual rigour and philosophical reasoning, art and creativity, architectural and historic buildings that go to mark and sustain a culture? 

 

It still exists. But I want to expand on your valid point a little further.

"where is the body of literature, intellectual rigour and philosophical reasoning, art and creativity, architectural and historic buildings that have sustained a culture for thousands of years across the continent of Bharat? "

 

I'll give you a clue. The traitors are too busy wiping out the Sikhs and other minorities in their quest of some superior Bharat.