Battle of Chamkaur

[Arsh1469]

Is there any evidence that 1 million Mughals really fought the Guru and his Sikh at Chamkaur? (Besides Zafarnama as the passage in it is not used literally)

[Singh1989]

Suraj Prakash, a biography of the Guru Sahibs. 

[Arsh1469]

54 minutes ago, Singh1989 said:

Suraj Prakash, a biography of the Guru Sahibs. 

Suraj Parkash is mostaly oral stories and is over a 100 years after the fact. Are there any primary sources?

[dallysingh101]

4 hours ago, Arsh1469 said:

Is there any evidence that 1 million Mughals really fought the Guru and his Sikh at Chamkaur? (Besides Zafarnama as the passage in it is not used literally)

This has been discussed in the past. I think people took the Persian style poetic expressions in Zafarnama literally as you mentioned. There is a surviving moghul (Persian) order directing troops against dasmesh pita, but in that order I think about 700 troops are mentioned (actually '700 cavalry and a park of artillery'). Now even if we suppose that 3 or 4 or such orders were dispatched, it would count as 2800 moghul troops, which against 40 people is heavy odds. 

Even 700 against 40 is about 17 mogs to 1 Singh. Plus the artillery. 

Even the logistics of sending a million people to the region doesn't add up. 

[GurjantGnostic]

4 hours ago, Arsh1469 said:

Is there any evidence that 1 million Mughals really fought the Guru and his Sikh at Chamkaur? (Besides Zafarnama as the passage in it is not used literally)

In some languages a number will have a literal, and, figurative meaning of countless. Not sure if it applies here. 

[dallysingh101]

I have to add: 

Looking back to growing up, and how certain overzealous parchaaraks would literally interpret Zafarnama, and attack anyone who questioned the numbers as being 'faithless'. I'm really glad that we've got to a place where we can have grown up, informed discussions on these things now. 

Plus I'm glad we are moving away from the childlike thinking of the past. It wasn't/isn't healthy.  

[dallysingh101]

4 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

In some languages a number will have a literal, and, figurative meaning of countless. Not sure if it applies here. 

I think that is exactly what is meant here. 

Also remember, there were women and children in dasmesh pita's group. 

[Arsh1469]

12 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

This has been discussed in the past. I think people took the Persian style poetic expressions in Zafarnama literally as you mentioned. There is a surviving moghul (Persian) order directing troops against dasmesh pita, but in that order I think about 700 troops are mentioned (actually '700 cavalry and a park of artillery'). Now even if we suppose that 3 or 4 or such orders were dispatched, it would count as 2800 moghul troops, which against 40 people is heavy odds. 

Even 700 against 40 is about 17 mogs to 1 Singh. Plus the artillery. 

Even the logistics of sending a million people to the region doesn't add up. 

Is there any inages of this order?

[dallysingh101]

41 minutes ago, Arsh1469 said:

Is there any inages of this order?

[dallysingh101]

Going to add this so people know what type of antagonism Sikhs faced under Aurenga and Wazir. Here a Sikh dharamsala is destroyed and converted into a maseet.