Why our freedom movement died out?

[dallysingh101]

From Chaupa Singh's rahit:

[Jai Tegang!]

21 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

Taliban kept fighting and kept patience for 20 years and finally won.

Why our Kharrku movement died out in 10-12 years? 

Good discussion question. The cards are heavily stacked against us.
-    We are a religious minority surrounded by hostile majorities with one side wanting to convert us and the other incrementally trying to revert us. Failing which, they both would happily genocide us.
-    Even the area of Punjab we wanted to make our homeland is over 40 % non-Sikh as @Ranjeet01 pointed out. Why would Punjabi Hindus want to limit themselves when they have the option of being part of a Billion+ Hindu India?
-    We are not strategically important for any of the world powers to take notice
-    We don’t have any existing Sikh power to offer backing. The diaspora  hadn’t [hasn’t] reached that intellectual or financial level where it can act as a stateless power.

I think the kharku movement, and especially the personality of Santji, reignited the diminished spirit of our people. Even if we were beaten, the awareness that we need sovereignty continues. We have time to regroup, strategize and plan for the future. The diaspora is growing and gaining wealth and knowledge, and most importantly a clear picture of what the hell happened to us starting from the loss of our Sikh Raj. The crap of caste oppression we continued and how it has severed a chunk of our panth from mazabi, chamar communities. Learn from our mistakes. Learn from the success of others in similar situations. Assimilate this knowledge and create a pragmatic plan. 
We need to learn the art of politics. How to stay neutral and use our adversaries to our advantage. We need to build up our strength through caste eradication, social upliftment of all our members, creation of a new education model that instills our core values. Then we wait for the opportunity. Let China Pakistan and India have their threesome. In that chaos will be our chance to do what we should have in 1947. Take what is ours, and some more for good measure.
 

[Ranjeet01]

19 minutes ago, Jai Tegang! said:

    Even the area of Punjab we wanted to make our homeland is over 40 % non-Sikh as @Ranjeet01 pointed out. Why would Punjabi Hindus want to limit themselves when they have the option of being part of a Billion+ Hindu India?

If we were Muslim we would turn the 40 percent Hindu to a 5 percent in 20 years. 

We'd do this by breeding like rabbits and going after the Hindu women and convert and breed with them. Then we would tell the remaining Hindus to convert and they would leave for mainland India. 

Then we would claim to be oppressed and breed some more. 

Of course we could never go to these depths.

India for it's billion plus Hindus has Kashmiri Hindus living in refugee camps to do this.

[dallysingh101]

11 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

If we were Muslim we would turn the 40 percent Hindu to a 5 percent in 20 years. 

We'd do this by breeding like rabbits and going after the Hindu women and convert and breed with them. Then we would tell the remaining Hindus to convert and they would leave for mainland India. 

Then we would claim to be oppressed and breed some more. 

Of course we could never go to these depths.

Hell Ranjeet! Certain people in the panth even managed to run off people who'd been in it for generations because of antiSikh caste mentality, we aren't even maintaining what we had let alone converting others. 

 

Quote

India for it's billion plus Hindus has Kashmiri Hindus living in refugee camps to do this.

I don't get this, what do you mean?

[sikhkaur1999]

33 minutes ago, Jai Tegang! said:

Good discussion question. The cards are heavily stacked against us.
-    We are a religious minority surrounded by hostile majorities with one side wanting to convert us and the other incrementally trying to revert us. Failing which, they both would happily genocide us.
-    Even the area of Punjab we wanted to make our homeland is over 40 % non-Sikh as @Ranjeet01 pointed out. Why would Punjabi Hindus want to limit themselves when they have the option of being part of a Billion+ Hindu India?
-    We are not strategically important for any of the world powers to take notice
-    We don’t have any existing Sikh power to offer backing. The diaspora  hadn’t [hasn’t] reached that intellectual or financial level where it can act as a stateless power.

I think the kharku movement, and especially the personality of Santji, reignited the diminished spirit of our people. Even if we were beaten, the awareness that we need sovereignty continues. We have time to regroup, strategize and plan for the future. The diaspora is growing and gaining wealth and knowledge, and most importantly a clear picture of what the hell happened to us starting from the loss of our Sikh Raj. The crap of caste oppression we continued and how it has severed a chunk of our panth from mazabi, chamar communities. Learn from our mistakes. Learn from the success of others in similar situations. Assimilate this knowledge and create a pragmatic plan. 
We need to learn the art of politics. How to stay neutral and use our adversaries to our advantage. We need to build up our strength through caste eradication, social upliftment of all our members, creation of a new education model that instills our core values. Then we wait for the opportunity. Let China Pakistan and India have their threesome. In that chaos will be our chance to do what we should have in 1947. Take what is ours, and some more for good measure.
 

I think what we need to do is start converting people instead of talking about khalistan. Not all wars are fought in the battlefield, some are fought covertly. We need to convert the UP Bihar people that come to punjab as a message to these hindus. I hate our people who form these alliances with these other people . Like we ourself are struggling for survival and all these sjw care about is getting brownie points from supporting movements that have no link to us. I mean how many these people are gonna come help sikhs when we are in trouble. I dont understand why our people are always dying to help others when their own house is burning.

[MisterrSingh]

On 8/20/2021 at 8:12 PM, Jai Tegang! said:

Good discussion question. The cards are heavily stacked against us.
-    We are a religious minority surrounded by hostile majorities with one side wanting to convert us and the other incrementally trying to revert us. Failing which, they both would happily genocide us.
-    Even the area of Punjab we wanted to make our homeland is over 40 % non-Sikh as @Ranjeet01 pointed out. Why would Punjabi Hindus want to limit themselves when they have the option of being part of a Billion+ Hindu India?
-    We are not strategically important for any of the world powers to take notice
-    We don’t have any existing Sikh power to offer backing. The diaspora  hadn’t [hasn’t] reached that intellectual or financial level where it can act as a stateless power.

I think the kharku movement, and especially the personality of Santji, reignited the diminished spirit of our people. Even if we were beaten, the awareness that we need sovereignty continues. We have time to regroup, strategize and plan for the future. The diaspora is growing and gaining wealth and knowledge, and most importantly a clear picture of what the hell happened to us starting from the loss of our Sikh Raj. The crap of caste oppression we continued and how it has severed a chunk of our panth from mazabi, chamar communities. Learn from our mistakes. Learn from the success of others in similar situations. Assimilate this knowledge and create a pragmatic plan. 
We need to learn the art of politics. How to stay neutral and use our adversaries to our advantage. We need to build up our strength through caste eradication, social upliftment of all our members, creation of a new education model that instills our core values. Then we wait for the opportunity. Let China Pakistan and India have their threesome. In that chaos will be our chance to do what we should have in 1947. Take what is ours, and some more for good measure.

Great points. I'd also add something that might upset most of us here: we aren't the hot 5*$t we think we are. As a quom we dine out on the achievements and sacrifices of those long gone. We also have a generally s****y mentality in processing life and reality regardless of where we are on the planet. The inate stupidity and delusion that all Sikhs possess doesn't magically disappear when we arrive (or are born) in the West. It just gets mixed up with the idiocy and the worst aspects of the Western host culture, and we end up with a monstrous hybrid mentality that exemplifies the worst of both worlds.

We've gradually, over the previous 40-50 years, become a quom of complainers and hand-wringers. We seem to relish the role of playing the victim.

[shastarSingh]

40 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

Great points. I'd also add something that might upset most of us here: we aren't the hot 5*$t we think we are. As a quom we dine out on the achievements and sacrifices of those long gone. We also have a generally s****y mentality in processing life and reality regardless of where we are on the planet. The inate stupidity and delusion that all Sikhs possess doesn't magically disappear when we arrive (or are born) in the West. It just gets mixed up with the idiocy and the worst aspects of the Western host culture, and we end up with a monstrous hybrid mentality that exemplifies the worst of both worlds.

We've gradually, over the previous 40-50 years, become a quom of complainers and hand-wringers. We seem to relish the role of playing the victim.

Dear veer

Do u think Punjabi qaum is also very jealous qaum and that's one of the reasons of our failure?

We get jealous and fight with each other and spoil each other's work.

All babaas, raagis, kathavachaks r so jealous of each other.

 

[MisterrSingh]

1 hour ago, shastarSingh said:

Dear veer

Do u think Punjabi qaum is also very jealous qaum and that's one of the reasons of our failure?

We get jealous and fight with each other and spoil each other's work.

All babaas, raagis, kathavachaks r so jealous of each other.

I think that's a huge part of it. We can't really trust or rely on each other. Why? It goes back to our low-trust, third-world roots. Even some kharkus sold other kharkus out. Some apologists cry about "Black Cats" which was an undeniable factor, but we seem to gloss over that there was some backstabbing that was not government influenced; it was pure selfish self interest.

[shastarSingh]

23 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

but we seem to gloss over that there was some backstabbing that was not government influenced; it was pure selfish self interest.

Yea there were lots of gaddariyan.

My father was very closely involved in the movement and he tells there were lots of gaddariyan.

Even "professor" darshan "singh" who was the Akal Takht Jathedaar in late 80's held secret meetings with Indian agencies and khaarrkus had decided to kill him but he somehow saved his life.

[MisterrSingh]

26 minutes ago, shastarSingh said:

Yea there were lots of gaddariyan.

My father was very closely involved in the movement and he tells there were lots of gaddariyan.

Even "professor" darshan "singh" who was the Akal Takht Jathedaar in late 80's held secret meetings with Indian agencies and khaarrkus had decided to kill him but he somehow saved his life.

Any thinking person who joins a cause initially having been convinced the mission was divinely inspired and directed would then begin to question the premise of the entire thing. I would never fall in behind any of these personalities. I just don't respect them as men, nevermind Sikhi.