Ustat-the main reason behind success of baba culture

[shastarSingh]

38 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

I know (or knew) of people who would never miss a Sant Singh Maskeen katha smagam or a Bhai Pinderpal Singh appearance. They'd sit in the sangat with their eyes closed in utter samadhi for hours. However, these same people were also dabblers in black magic and had a pandit baba on speed dial.

What affect has the elite level of katha available to Sikhs managed to do for these people?

Excellent post veer.

These days katha is available to people 24 hours via internet and tv, but still on ground level sikhi is not prospering.

Some people listen to katha and quickly chakk amrit but soon after either break their amrit or don't keep any rehit.

I m not against katha but sometimes these kathavachaks due to the competition with fellow kathavachaks  try to be over scholarly and over complicate things or start giving examples from Hindu Granths.

Sikhi and Gurbani is a simple way to God.

[shastarSingh]

Sometimes the concept kathavachaks try to explain in hours, u can read the same concept in few minutes.

[MisterrSingh]

45 minutes ago, shastarSingh said:

Excellent post veer.

These days katha is available to people 24 hours via internet and tv, but still on ground level sikhi is not prospering.

Some people listen to katha and quickly chakk amrit but soon after either break their amrit or don't keep any rehit.

I m not against katha but sometimes these kathavachaks due to the competition with fellow kathavachaks  try to be over scholarly and over complicate things or start giving examples from Hindu Granths.

Sikhi and Gurbani is a simple way to God.

First-rate observation.

But then on the other side of the coin, I've listened to katha from gianis who one MIGHT describe as having a very down-to-earth, "chalaak" tone and delivery. They chuckle to themselves after having made a wry observation they seem to think is an unearthed gem of genius, lmao. These types of gianis scare and intimidate people into following Sikhi. That, in my opinion, leads to people lapsing in the future.

[shastarSingh]

There r hundreds of historical references of Singhs eating meat. These "scholar" kathavachaks totally ignore these references and never bring these references in front of sangat. They fear if they speak even slightly in favour of meat, they will loose their future katha contracts as majority of Sangat these days is against meat and is vegetarian.

[dallysingh101]

1 hour ago, shastarSingh said:

Sometimes the concept kathavachaks try to explain in hours, u can read the same concept in few minutes.

Thank you!

Also they change sakhis and add details that didn't exist in the original sources. Like dialogues that aren't recorded or mentioned anywhere. I know this is probably to paint a picture in the audiences mind but still.... you can create subtle shifts in message in this way, even unintentionally. 

 

What I'm getting from the last few posts is that the ground reality is that people have certain preferences for obtaining knowledge. Some prefer to passively listen to it via katha, others prefer to read and don't like this approach, some like to actually have the physical presence of someone they perceive to spiritually uplifted (i.e. dera baba). Some can memorise large amounts of bani but it doesn't seem to have much impact on their ethics or morals. 

For the record I'm not against sants, and I'm not against sampardayas that preserve important aspects of Sikhi. If judging a Sikh subcommunity on their contribution to the K'stan lehar is the standard, even nihungs would come out of that looking bad.  

 

[MisterrSingh]

1 hour ago, shastarSingh said:

Sometimes the concept kathavachaks try to explain in hours, u can read the same concept in few minutes.

The elite guys are always flexing on the sangat, lol. It's good because it means they aren't speaking down to us like some of their colleagues, but if it goes over the heads of 99% of the people there, what's the point?

[dallysingh101]

57 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

I've listened to katha from gianis who one MIGHT describe as having a very down-to-earth, "chalaak" tone and delivery. They chuckle to themselves after having made a wry observation they seem to think is an unearthed gem of genius, lmao.

The thing that makes me laugh about this is when they chuckle like that, they look around them and their flying monkeys join in at the 'wry observation'. I don't think any of it is heart felt. Seems obnoxiously smug from outside. 

[MisterrSingh]

2 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Thank you!

Also they change sakhis and add details that didn't exist in the original sources. Like dialogues that aren't recorded or mentioned anywhere. I know this is probably to paint a picture in the audiences mind but still.... you can create subtle shifts in message in this way, even unintentionally. 

I think I vaguely remember reading something rather astute that Sant Kartar Singh Bhindrawale wrote about the trap that some gianis and kathavachaks can easily fall into when holding court on stage. I think they said that it's very easy to get carried away and start to add a bit of "masala" here and there; basically letting the emotion of the occasion sweep away the giani who feels there's nothing wrong with embellishments as long as they increase the prestige of the sakhi and the personalities involved. 

[shastarSingh]

These scholar kathavachaks speak for hours but their parchar is weak.

I go to budha dal chhauni near Ludhiana. Baba Joginder Singh is always absorbed in Naam.He isn't a scholar. He doesn't read books.

Due to his immense bhagti, his simple words hv immense power.

Just talking to him for few minutes, I feel closer to God and my sikhi gets stronger.

[Ranjeet01]

17 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

The elite guys are always flexing on the sangat, lol. It's good because it means they aren't speaking down to us like some of their colleagues, but if it goes over the heads of 99% of the people there, what's the point?

It is said that anything that relatively simple that is explained in a complex way is a mark of charlatan