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I dont believe in islam but i think the quran is very based in terms of war

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So someone was telling me that the quran tells muslims when they are in minority to not wage physical war until your population is high enough to have a big chance of winning. So when you are in the minority dont wage a physical war but try to increase your population through high birth rates until the population becomes high enough to take over the host in an actual war. Now sikhs will come and say oh but this not the right moral thing to do and we should care about quality not quantity but when your existence is constantly threatened by two big religions that you are surrounded by and you dont even have enough numbers to sustain a majority in your own land in the future how is this immoral as a strategy to prepare yourself for the inevitable in the future? If only our population was high enough through births we wouldn't be in this state. No one gives a damn about us because we are politically irrelevant due to our low numbers and this is very threatening to our future generations. I see some sikhs constantly talking bad about india and then our brothers back home end up in jail and thus our population keeps getting lowered. They dont understand we dont have the power yet to physically fight against these external aggressor yet. We are surrounded by aggressors from all sides. Not all wars have to be fought in the physical sense. I wish our people had even 1/10th of the cleverness muslims or christians have.

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I've said on a couple of occasions in the past about there being certain pragmatic elements of Islam that works in its favour particularly during moments where its followers aren't in a strong position, or even generally when other religions would seek to impress on its followers that life is a beautiful, spiritual bed of roses if you just believe hard enough, Islam says, "Well, actually, it's not, and you need to do this-and-this when it comes to dealing with Christians / Jews / women otherwise you WILL suffer." 

I think that's the undisputed socio-political aspect of it coming to the fore; the part of the belief system that's divorced from the spiritual or religious "tolerant" side to things that seems to err towards compassion and the "let-live" ethos of most religions regardless of whether it's warranted or not.

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17 hours ago, Kau89r8 said:

Totally agree with you! Another thing i like is how they keep it Alpha which is why they attract many Muslims converts. many boxer convert to Islam too.

They do a good job (in this department) in prison too. But I think that's mainly because a lot of people hate whites and their racism (overt and covert), and these guys seem like a viable alternative to them and their christian religion.  


17 hours ago, proudkaur21 said:

And then it seems like our male counterparts are totally lacking in any will to take the stand about how we should go on about our future.

This isn't true. It's just the effete, genteel but numerous section of our community vilify and sideline the stronger willed people (usually they have help from outside sources like the british police or politicians).  Plus who is willing to raise up their sons tough, where violence isn't uncommon, or prison sentences and records? Only greedy, money/status obsessed parents okay with hard drug dealing in Canada by the looks of it?  

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8 hours ago, JSinghnz said:

Why is our population decreasing is the most important thing to be discussed.

Why is the Christian religion increasing so fast in Punjab.



I don't think this is complicated to understand (imo). Firstly is that parchaar isn't of the quality it should be right now. Most of it is preaching to the converted. But we shouldn't be blind to the fact that we're having laudable attempts to rectify this in places with orgs such as Basics of Sikhi. I'd say the efforts to promote aspects of Panjabi culture (jaat -paatism, bhangra etc.) are infinitely more sustained than for the dharam.  

And the other big thing is plain old hypocrisy. Look, people feel this and it disillusions them, which leads to apathy (and sometimes even antipathy) towards the panth. Caste has to come on top of the list here. Instead of being a egalitarian movement as originally envisioned by our Guru sahibs, people still (even worse than a few decades ago in my opinion) rigidly hold on to caste identity over a dharmic one. This involves them disrespecting those they perceive as beneath them, which only leads to alienation, which then causes those people to seek pastures where they won't be treated so bad. 

Other thing is perceived social mobility. If the church offers x,y and z (a welcoming environment, an approachable priest, pays for medical bills etc. etc.) and status (which many apnay are obsessed with) as well as employment, I don't think it is too surprising that people (who are already quite flimsy in their understanding and hence commitment to the dharam) jump ship. We could be providing these things to people ourselves, we should all know the SGPC budget is enormous, but corruption and selfishness dictates that resources are split between cronies. 



What are the Sikhs doing anything about this?

I think the first reaction of literate people who truly identify with the dharam in this day and age, is to disassociate themselves from the corrupt institutes and use their own wits to study their heritage. They have to disassociate because the rot within those institutes will lead them to be disillusioned. 

What it boils down to is a complete breakdown of premier institutes.  

What is weird is that we've been here before as a panth, with masands, with movements like the Jaito movement. But for some reason, apnay today don't seem to be able to directly challenge the corrupt institutes today and force change? My mind gets blown by the fact that certain institutes are giving away alcohol to garner votes. And hardly anyone bats an eyelid. This would never have taken place when I was young. 

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15 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Bhangra paa-ing our way into oblivion and irrelevance......there should be a shoot to kill policy towards anyone dressed like that in Panjab my opinion. lol

I actually lol'd at this.

Now yellow tracksuit bhangra wala from the gif's must be dreaming that he too could one day be a politician. 

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