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I need advice - Moving out in the future from parents, and how to help them, independence


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Sounds exhausting. They will inevitably hit you with anger, slander, emotional guilt, and maybe the cold shoulder when you inform them of your plans. Then it depends on whether you have the resolve to see it through, or whether you'll cave to keep the peace. It truly is down to your mettle. I won't tell you to abandon your parents. I think that happens too often in our community, but your folks seem ridiculous on many levels. A psychiatrist would have a field day with the behaviour of theirs that you're describing. 

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7 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Sounds exhausting. They will inevitably hit you with anger, slander, emotional guilt, and maybe the cold shoulder when you inform them of your plans. Then it depends on whether you have the resolve to see it through, or whether you'll cave to keep the peace. It truly is down to your mettle. I won't tell you to abandon your parents. I think that happens too often in our community, but your folks seem ridiculous on many levels. A psychiatrist would have a field day with the behaviour of theirs that you're describing. 

Sadly though, from what I hear, it's very common in our community. 

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Thanks for the responses. 

On 10/19/2021 at 8:04 AM, dallysingh101 said:

@GuestSingh12345

Do you have any siblings bro? 

Yeah got 2 younger brothers, one is a year younger we'll call him sibling 1 the other is 10 years younger or sibling 2. We get along great and there's no problems between us at all. In fact the time I spend with them daily is the highlight of my day and I am grateful for having siblings like them. Me and sibling 1 are on the same page with our parents and we have this unspoken understanding where if they both get into some argument, we'll just do what we can to stay out of it as much as we can and not get entangled. Like especially we're in the car on some long drive we'll just plug in some headphones and start watching some youtube videos or tv shows, or listen to some instrumental music etc and enjoy the view outside as we drive along and hear their voices fade into the background. I had asked sibling 1 last year if they would be willing to move out with me if I ever did in the near future and they had surprisingly said yes. I haven't asked him again since nor mentioned the idea but I am planning to move as if sibling 1 would come along, this way in either case if he chooses to come along or not everything will be ready. We don't talk to sibling 2 about about our parents infront of him because he's too young I think and I'm not sure how it may affect him.  I am concerned about leaving sibling 2 behind all alone because I don't want him to grow to resent us or an even worse problem is if he finds a bad group of friends to substitute us and we come home one day to find him on a bad path. I would be responsible for that. On the other hand, I think sometimes maybe it'd be better for sibling 2 if sibling 1 stayed with him at home so his world doesn't fall apart entirely and it might be easier for him to deal with. But then if sibling 1 really wants to come along, how could I tell him to stay while I go out on my own? Either way, I am worried about hurting sibling 2 and question if I'm being too selfish sometimes, but for now, I am spending time with him to make good times and the most out of it so hopefully that becomes a base for him where he can draw strength from and hopefully one day he becomes strong enough on his own to not fall into the influence of other kids and be able to stand alone if he has to for his own principles. 

On 10/19/2021 at 1:03 AM, MisterrSingh said:

Sounds exhausting. They will inevitably hit you with anger, slander, emotional guilt, and maybe the cold shoulder when you inform them of your plans. Then it depends on whether you have the resolve to see it through, or whether you'll cave to keep the peace. It truly is down to your mettle. I won't tell you to abandon your parents. I think that happens too often in our community, but your folks seem ridiculous on many levels. A psychiatrist would have a field day with the behaviour of theirs that you're describing. 

I got a  taste of all of that when I tried dropping hints to test their reaction,"how could you be so selfish, we've worked all our lives for you, this is not our culture, you promised us when you were younger(10) you would stay with us, where are you getting these ideas, you're supposed to help us retire, how will the siblings deal with it, do you hate us?, we'll die if you leave", I didn't push it further and dropped it as a joke where they calmed down, but I'd expect them to get really angry if I kept following through. Ideally, I want to be able to leave on as good of a note as I can. I don't want to just go missing in the middle of the night and not talk to them for 10 years and showup one day for a funeral, that's just a trainwreck for everyone. I want to leave the door open for a better relationship, because I think there is hope for change and a healthy relationship in the future. It just may take some time and I plan on dropping by every so often to check on them and see if they've changed a little. Like I was thinking maybe after first moving out, I would go back home after 2-4 months of no contact for a quick surprise day in day out visit for a few hours and see how they've been doing. Then if they are starting to change for the better, maybe come by again on surprise in 2-4 weeks and start keeping in touch slowly. If they turned for the worse and became more bitter, then try to have a good conversation and explain your thoughts some and keep checking in on them every month or two afterwards.  I have some rough ideas for the actual day I plan on the big move, I just have a rough date right now and not set in stone. For one, I plan on leaving them some money behind to cover 1-2 month's worth of expenses as a good gesture so hopefully they don't think I hate them. Two, I don't plan on telling them where I am moving to until they show significant progress and they're at a point where they made it out of the tunnel and I believe they won't ever turn back. I am doing this because I am worried if I tell them where I'm going they will probably show up unannounced or even worse send other family members unannounced as diplomats to talk some sense into me to fix a problem they have no business dealing with. I am already expecting my parents to tell everyone in the family if I move out probably within the first few days, and in the worst case, I also expect them  to play the victim card so they can make everyone feel bad for them and slowly turn the family against me. I'm okay with that, because I know the family members I trust won't so easily be swayed to picking a side and they would try to avoid this drama and wouldn't be the ones gossiping about it, and so long as I do my best to leave on a good note, I think they would understand and as long as they understand ,everything's good. This way, I'll only be left with family bridges with the best family members and the rest can poison each other for the rest of their lives, good riddance, life is too precious to be wasted on distant toxic family members, my parents are within my sphere and somewhat my responsibility so they rank higher than other distant family members in terms of who I should focus on helping.  Third thing, I've been trying to figure out recently, is if I should give them a few days heads up or just tell them 1 afternoon I am going today? Obviously no notice is going to lead to a bigger explosive reaction, but giving them a few days might be enough for them to setup some intervention and come up with some plot/schemes. 

Again, I don't hate my parents, I am resentful somewhat if I'm being honest even though I don't really want to be. I would love if we could all get along though and they could actually learn to be happy or atleast not struggling through life everyday. There comes some days every so often where everyone is in a good mood and I actually feel like staying because it's such a nice feeling of belonging, but there's many bad days that overshadow it. There could be many more good days and that occasional taste keeps hope alive for a decent future relationship. I plan on secretly setting up a retirement fund for them if I can do well for myself cause under no circumstance do I want to see my parents living in some retirement home. I don't plan on telling them about it because they are bad with finances so would probably start spending more accordingly if I did. I also don't want them to expect to receive money from me consistently because it will lead to the same problem of overspending. I'd rather send them unexpected amounts randomly to throw them off. I also want to payoff some of their house too one day, but that's a big maybe in the future.  

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1 hour ago, GuestSingh12345 said:

Thanks for the responses. 

Yeah got 2 younger brothers, one is a year younger we'll call him sibling 1 the other is 10 years younger or sibling 2. We get along great and there's no problems between us at all. In fact the time I spend with them daily is the highlight of my day and I am grateful for having siblings like them. Me and sibling 1 are on the same page with our parents and we have this unspoken understanding where if they both get into some argument, we'll just do what we can to stay out of it as much as we can and not get entangled. Like especially we're in the car on some long drive we'll just plug in some headphones and start watching some youtube videos or tv shows, or listen to some instrumental music etc and enjoy the view outside as we drive along and hear their voices fade into the background. I had asked sibling 1 last year if they would be willing to move out with me if I ever did in the near future and they had surprisingly said yes. I haven't asked him again since nor mentioned the idea but I am planning to move as if sibling 1 would come along, this way in either case if he chooses to come along or not everything will be ready. We don't talk to sibling 2 about about our parents infront of him because he's too young I think and I'm not sure how it may affect him.  I am concerned about leaving sibling 2 behind all alone because I don't want him to grow to resent us or an even worse problem is if he finds a bad group of friends to substitute us and we come home one day to find him on a bad path. I would be responsible for that. On the other hand, I think sometimes maybe it'd be better for sibling 2 if sibling 1 stayed with him at home so his world doesn't fall apart entirely and it might be easier for him to deal with. But then if sibling 1 really wants to come along, how could I tell him to stay while I go out on my own? Either way, I am worried about hurting sibling 2 and question if I'm being too selfish sometimes, but for now, I am spending time with him to make good times and the most out of it so hopefully that becomes a base for him where he can draw strength from and hopefully one day he becomes strong enough on his own to not fall into the influence of other kids and be able to stand alone if he has to for his own principles. 

I got a  taste of all of that when I tried dropping hints to test their reaction,"how could you be so selfish, we've worked all our lives for you, this is not our culture, you promised us when you were younger(10) you would stay with us, where are you getting these ideas, you're supposed to help us retire, how will the siblings deal with it, do you hate us?, we'll die if you leave", I didn't push it further and dropped it as a joke where they calmed down, but I'd expect them to get really angry if I kept following through. Ideally, I want to be able to leave on as good of a note as I can. I don't want to just go missing in the middle of the night and not talk to them for 10 years and showup one day for a funeral, that's just a trainwreck for everyone. I want to leave the door open for a better relationship, because I think there is hope for change and a healthy relationship in the future. It just may take some time and I plan on dropping by every so often to check on them and see if they've changed a little. Like I was thinking maybe after first moving out, I would go back home after 2-4 months of no contact for a quick surprise day in day out visit for a few hours and see how they've been doing. Then if they are starting to change for the better, maybe come by again on surprise in 2-4 weeks and start keeping in touch slowly. If they turned for the worse and became more bitter, then try to have a good conversation and explain your thoughts some and keep checking in on them every month or two afterwards.  I have some rough ideas for the actual day I plan on the big move, I just have a rough date right now and not set in stone. For one, I plan on leaving them some money behind to cover 1-2 month's worth of expenses as a good gesture so hopefully they don't think I hate them. Two, I don't plan on telling them where I am moving to until they show significant progress and they're at a point where they made it out of the tunnel and I believe they won't ever turn back. I am doing this because I am worried if I tell them where I'm going they will probably show up unannounced or even worse send other family members unannounced as diplomats to talk some sense into me to fix a problem they have no business dealing with. I am already expecting my parents to tell everyone in the family if I move out probably within the first few days, and in the worst case, I also expect them  to play the victim card so they can make everyone feel bad for them and slowly turn the family against me. I'm okay with that, because I know the family members I trust won't so easily be swayed to picking a side and they would try to avoid this drama and wouldn't be the ones gossiping about it, and so long as I do my best to leave on a good note, I think they would understand and as long as they understand ,everything's good. This way, I'll only be left with family bridges with the best family members and the rest can poison each other for the rest of their lives, good riddance, life is too precious to be wasted on distant toxic family members, my parents are within my sphere and somewhat my responsibility so they rank higher than other distant family members in terms of who I should focus on helping.  Third thing, I've been trying to figure out recently, is if I should give them a few days heads up or just tell them 1 afternoon I am going today? Obviously no notice is going to lead to a bigger explosive reaction, but giving them a few days might be enough for them to setup some intervention and come up with some plot/schemes. 

Again, I don't hate my parents, I am resentful somewhat if I'm being honest even though I don't really want to be. I would love if we could all get along though and they could actually learn to be happy or atleast not struggling through life everyday. There comes some days every so often where everyone is in a good mood and I actually feel like staying because it's such a nice feeling of belonging, but there's many bad days that overshadow it. There could be many more good days and that occasional taste keeps hope alive for a decent future relationship. I plan on secretly setting up a retirement fund for them if I can do well for myself cause under no circumstance do I want to see my parents living in some retirement home. I don't plan on telling them about it because they are bad with finances so would probably start spending more accordingly if I did. I also don't want them to expect to receive money from me consistently because it will lead to the same problem of overspending. I'd rather send them unexpected amounts randomly to throw them off. I also want to payoff some of their house too one day, but that's a big maybe in the future.  

There seems to be alot of deceit involved in your plans.

Have you thought about having a family meeting and telling them how you feel? Perhaps tell them if you continue feeling unhappy you would have to move out. 

Also ask them to consider undergoing family therapy that involves the whole family where everyone gets their say? This way the therapist/consultant would have the job of pointing you all in the right direction that would benefit the whole family.  It might be expensive but then might save alot of heartache in the future for all concerned.  Maybe use someone who understands the culture, or even someone from the gurudwara who is capable of acting as a mediator. But don't skimp on cost if you can afford it. Find the right person. 

My instinct says you have not tried to handle this in a mature way though you clearly understand how this will impact on your younger siblings, as well as your parents. It's not a simple case of buying you way out. 

What are the causes of stress? Do you take regular holidays, outings as a family. A regular meal out can do wonders to build family bonds.  A weekend in the countryside can be very rejuvenating or even a day trip. 

As the eldest you have a responsibility to your younger siblings especially in the circumstances you are speaking of so before taking such drastic steps you should exhaust all possible alternatives. 

Who knows if you invest the time and money in your family now it may even save you money in the future. 

I'm not saying live with them forever but at least leave on a high after they are taught how to mentally adjust to new circumstances. 

Show them or learn a different way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, GuestSingh12345 said:

I got a  taste of all of that when I tried dropping hints to test their reaction,"how could you be so selfish, we've worked all our lives for you, this is not our culture, you promised us when you were younger(10) you would stay with us, where are you getting these ideas, you're supposed to help us retire, how will the siblings deal with it, do you hate us?, we'll die if you leave", I didn't push it further and dropped it as a joke where they calmed down, but I'd expect them to get really angry if I kept following through. Ideally, I want to be able to leave on as good of a note as I can. I don't want to just go missing in the middle of the night and not talk to them for 10 years and showup one day for a funeral, that's just a trainwreck for everyone. I want to leave the door open for a better relationship, because I think there is hope for change and a healthy relationship in the future. It just may take some time and I plan on dropping by every so often to check on them and see if they've changed a little. Like I was thinking maybe after first moving out, I would go back home after 2-4 months of no contact for a quick surprise day in day out visit for a few hours and see how they've been doing. Then if they are starting to change for the better, maybe come by again on surprise in 2-4 weeks and start keeping in touch slowly. If they turned for the worse and became more bitter, then try to have a good conversation and explain your thoughts some and keep checking in on them every month or two afterwards.  I have some rough ideas for the actual day I plan on the big move, I just have a rough date right now and not set in stone. For one, I plan on leaving them some money behind to cover 1-2 month's worth of expenses as a good gesture so hopefully they don't think I hate them. Two, I don't plan on telling them where I am moving to until they show significant progress and they're at a point where they made it out of the tunnel and I believe they won't ever turn back. I am doing this because I am worried if I tell them where I'm going they will probably show up unannounced or even worse send other family members unannounced as diplomats to talk some sense into me to fix a problem they have no business dealing with. I am already expecting my parents to tell everyone in the family if I move out probably within the first few days, and in the worst case, I also expect them  to play the victim card so they can make everyone feel bad for them and slowly turn the family against me. I'm okay with that, because I know the family members I trust won't so easily be swayed to picking a side and they would try to avoid this drama and wouldn't be the ones gossiping about it, and so long as I do my best to leave on a good note, I think they would understand and as long as they understand ,everything's good. This way, I'll only be left with family bridges with the best family members and the rest can poison each other for the rest of their lives, good riddance, life is too precious to be wasted on distant toxic family members, my parents are within my sphere and somewhat my responsibility so they rank higher than other distant family members in terms of who I should focus on helping.  Third thing, I've been trying to figure out recently, is if I should give them a few days heads up or just tell them 1 afternoon I am going today? Obviously no notice is going to lead to a bigger explosive reaction, but giving them a few days might be enough for them to setup some intervention and come up with some plot/schemes. 

Again, I don't hate my parents, I am resentful somewhat if I'm being honest even though I don't really want to be. I would love if we could all get along though and they could actually learn to be happy or atleast not struggling through life everyday. There comes some days every so often where everyone is in a good mood and I actually feel like staying because it's such a nice feeling of belonging, but there's many bad days that overshadow it. There could be many more good days and that occasional taste keeps hope alive for a decent future relationship. I plan on secretly setting up a retirement fund for them if I can do well for myself cause under no circumstance do I want to see my parents living in some retirement home. I don't plan on telling them about it because they are bad with finances so would probably start spending more accordingly if I did. I also don't want them to expect to receive money from me consistently because it will lead to the same problem of overspending. I'd rather send them unexpected amounts randomly to throw them off. I also want to payoff some of their house too one day, but that's a big maybe in the future.  

You've got a wise head on your shoulders. You'll be fine. 

There's no need for it all to end in acrimony and recriminations. I do think your parents are incapable of seeing any of the positives as you've described. I also believe they were relishing the opportunity of imposing their domineering selves on any potential daughters-in-law, but since you seem determined to flee the nest you'll rob them of this particular delight, too, lol. That would've caused you major problems in the future, btw.

It's not often I suggest Sikh sons leave the family home and their parents, but in your case I don't feel the reasons are superficial and shallow. If you'll forgive me for saying, but your parents seem to be on the extreme end of the Punjabi Narcissistic Sociopathy scale. Safe to say there will never be any change in their behaviour, meaning you'll always be on the receiving end of it. Offspring with similar behaviour patterns and personality types to such parents would probably have a great time with them, but your current lingering affection for them will turn to resentment and hatred if you don't put distance between them and yourselves.

Again, I don't like recommending "separation" but from what you've described they are incapable of introspective change. Give them a short, sharp shock, and they may perhaps reform some of their more obnoxious habits. Currently, they're luxuriating under the confident belief that the power resides with them. Undermine this confidence without burning bridges and making a jaloos.

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I think too many problems occur due to disagreements between wife and MIL/ FIL.

A little unrelated, but I think in this day and age, a good compromise would be for sons to move out but stay close to their parents' house - in some cases same street, or same town. Otherwise, around half an hour by car is reasonable.

 

 

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On 10/20/2021 at 5:03 PM, GuestSingh12345 said:

Thanks for the responses. 

Yeah got 2 younger brothers, one is a year younger we'll call him sibling 1 the other is 10 years younger or sibling 2. We get along great and there's no problems between us at all. In fact the time I spend with them daily is the highlight of my day and I am grateful for having siblings like them. Me and sibling 1 are on the same page with our parents and we have this unspoken understanding where if they both get into some argument, we'll just do what we can to stay out of it as much as we can and not get entangled. Like especially we're in the car on some long drive we'll just plug in some headphones and start watching some youtube videos or tv shows, or listen to some instrumental music etc and enjoy the view outside as we drive along and hear their voices fade into the background. I had asked sibling 1 last year if they would be willing to move out with me if I ever did in the near future and they had surprisingly said yes. I haven't asked him again since nor mentioned the idea but I am planning to move as if sibling 1 would come along, this way in either case if he chooses to come along or not everything will be ready. We don't talk to sibling 2 about about our parents infront of him because he's too young I think and I'm not sure how it may affect him.  I am concerned about leaving sibling 2 behind all alone because I don't want him to grow to resent us or an even worse problem is if he finds a bad group of friends to substitute us and we come home one day to find him on a bad path. I would be responsible for that. On the other hand, I think sometimes maybe it'd be better for sibling 2 if sibling 1 stayed with him at home so his world doesn't fall apart entirely and it might be easier for him to deal with. But then if sibling 1 really wants to come along, how could I tell him to stay while I go out on my own? Either way, I am worried about hurting sibling 2 and question if I'm being too selfish sometimes, but for now, I am spending time with him to make good times and the most out of it so hopefully that becomes a base for him where he can draw strength from and hopefully one day he becomes strong enough on his own to not fall into the influence of other kids and be able to stand alone if he has to for his own principles. 

I got a  taste of all of that when I tried dropping hints to test their reaction,"how could you be so selfish, we've worked all our lives for you, this is not our culture, you promised us when you were younger(10) you would stay with us, where are you getting these ideas, you're supposed to help us retire, how will the siblings deal with it, do you hate us?, we'll die if you leave", I didn't push it further and dropped it as a joke where they calmed down, but I'd expect them to get really angry if I kept following through. Ideally, I want to be able to leave on as good of a note as I can. I don't want to just go missing in the middle of the night and not talk to them for 10 years and showup one day for a funeral, that's just a trainwreck for everyone. I want to leave the door open for a better relationship, because I think there is hope for change and a healthy relationship in the future. It just may take some time and I plan on dropping by every so often to check on them and see if they've changed a little. Like I was thinking maybe after first moving out, I would go back home after 2-4 months of no contact for a quick surprise day in day out visit for a few hours and see how they've been doing. Then if they are starting to change for the better, maybe come by again on surprise in 2-4 weeks and start keeping in touch slowly. If they turned for the worse and became more bitter, then try to have a good conversation and explain your thoughts some and keep checking in on them every month or two afterwards.  I have some rough ideas for the actual day I plan on the big move, I just have a rough date right now and not set in stone. For one, I plan on leaving them some money behind to cover 1-2 month's worth of expenses as a good gesture so hopefully they don't think I hate them. Two, I don't plan on telling them where I am moving to until they show significant progress and they're at a point where they made it out of the tunnel and I believe they won't ever turn back. I am doing this because I am worried if I tell them where I'm going they will probably show up unannounced or even worse send other family members unannounced as diplomats to talk some sense into me to fix a problem they have no business dealing with. I am already expecting my parents to tell everyone in the family if I move out probably within the first few days, and in the worst case, I also expect them  to play the victim card so they can make everyone feel bad for them and slowly turn the family against me. I'm okay with that, because I know the family members I trust won't so easily be swayed to picking a side and they would try to avoid this drama and wouldn't be the ones gossiping about it, and so long as I do my best to leave on a good note, I think they would understand and as long as they understand ,everything's good. This way, I'll only be left with family bridges with the best family members and the rest can poison each other for the rest of their lives, good riddance, life is too precious to be wasted on distant toxic family members, my parents are within my sphere and somewhat my responsibility so they rank higher than other distant family members in terms of who I should focus on helping.  Third thing, I've been trying to figure out recently, is if I should give them a few days heads up or just tell them 1 afternoon I am going today? Obviously no notice is going to lead to a bigger explosive reaction, but giving them a few days might be enough for them to setup some intervention and come up with some plot/schemes. 

Again, I don't hate my parents, I am resentful somewhat if I'm being honest even though I don't really want to be. I would love if we could all get along though and they could actually learn to be happy or atleast not struggling through life everyday. There comes some days every so often where everyone is in a good mood and I actually feel like staying because it's such a nice feeling of belonging, but there's many bad days that overshadow it. There could be many more good days and that occasional taste keeps hope alive for a decent future relationship. I plan on secretly setting up a retirement fund for them if I can do well for myself cause under no circumstance do I want to see my parents living in some retirement home. I don't plan on telling them about it because they are bad with finances so would probably start spending more accordingly if I did. I also don't want them to expect to receive money from me consistently because it will lead to the same problem of overspending. I'd rather send them unexpected amounts randomly to throw them off. I also want to payoff some of their house too one day, but that's a big maybe in the future.  

Gurbani tells parents not to impose on their children this way. Perhaps somebody knows the location or I'll see what I can find. It's either in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or Varaan Bhai Gurdas Ji. 

Once they know you are able to leave and have the backing of Gurmat perhaps you will find you have new bargaining power for the behaviors that are acceptable in your family. You don't have to be the man of your house just be a man of your house, who sticks to his guns, backs with Gurbani, and speaks the truth for Sarbat Da Bhala.

You are not beholden to them. If they want that extra icing in life called multigenerational support of extended family they have to create an environment for all three of you to joyfully have families there. And earn your consent. It is a great thing to do, provide for the elders...when they respect you and help you create your own joyful life. 

I am only now rekindling certain familial relationships after being brainwashed my whole life that I was a man at birth, responsible for my mother, and going to be her retirement. It's sick and deranged. I actually want to do all those things. They way people twist it into slavery is disgusting though, and I will have no part in one sided contracts honored only by me. A big turning point is when I realized they all expected that to be at the expense of me having my own life, family, etc. And that as a larger family none of them were worth anything. A bunch of shallow, nindaks, assimilated into white supremacy before my eyes. No thanks. Hypocritical. Lying. Scheeming.  Next. 

Family is a team. It's everyone playing the same game, by the same rules, and working together or it's not. Either we all win or it's not working right. 

Bro. You can move. You can take a sibling with you. The flamingos leave their babies do they not? Guru Nanak Dev Ji took off on foot did he not? You can stay too and lay it down bro. Calm, cool, calculated, chardikala and correct. 

They get rude, bring in Sangat to witness and support you. It's your family business, be a pro. The parents don't listen and learn something off you go. If you respect your parents, respectfully tell them what they need to do to have the life they want. If it includes you. 

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On 10/21/2021 at 1:03 AM, GuestSingh12345 said:

Yeah got 2 younger brothers, one is a year younger we'll call him sibling 1 the other is 10 years younger or sibling 2. We get along great and there's no problems between us at all. In fact the time I spend with them daily is the highlight of my day and I am grateful for having siblings like them. Me and sibling 1 are on the same page with our parents and we have this unspoken understanding where if they both get into some argument, we'll just do what we can to stay out of it as much as we can and not get entangled. Like especially we're in the car on some long drive we'll just plug in some headphones and start watching some youtube videos or tv shows, or listen to some instrumental music etc and enjoy the view outside as we drive along and hear their voices fade into the background. I had asked sibling 1 last year if they would be willing to move out with me if I ever did in the near future and they had surprisingly said yes. I haven't asked him again since nor mentioned the idea but I am planning to move as if sibling 1 would come along, this way in either case if he chooses to come along or not everything will be ready. We don't talk to sibling 2 about about our parents infront of him because he's too young I think and I'm not sure how it may affect him.  I am concerned about leaving sibling 2 behind all alone because I don't want him to grow to resent us or an even worse problem is if he finds a bad group of friends to substitute us and we come home one day to find him on a bad path. I would be responsible for that. On the other hand, I think sometimes maybe it'd be better for sibling 2 if sibling 1 stayed with him at home so his world doesn't fall apart entirely and it might be easier for him to deal with. But then if sibling 1 really wants to come along, how could I tell him to stay while I go out on my own? Either way, I am worried about hurting sibling 2 and question if I'm being too selfish sometimes, but for now, I am spending time with him to make good times and the most out of it so hopefully that becomes a base for him where he can draw strength from and hopefully one day he becomes strong enough on his own to not fall into the influence of other kids and be able to stand alone if he has to for his own principles. 

Okay, you're lucky with having two siblings because it means duties can be divided instead of thrown on one head (later on)

I would not advise you to leave and take your brother with you. That's subjecting the olders to an excess of trauma. Get your own place sorted out. Make it near your parents place, because you'll have to keep an eye out for them and your younger siblings. You have to be able to get to them sharpish if required, especially as they age. By being closer, you'll save a lot of time and money, rather than having to traipse half way across town to reach them. You're the oldest boy, so in time you'll have the responsibility of an older before the others (unless you abdicate like a pu55y). 

See it as you've done your time there, and they have to do theirs. When you get your place, have your brother(s) come around and maybe the older one even stay overnight (occasionally).  I wouldn't tell anyone to move away from their parents lightly; but the sad fact is that  it's not unknown for pressure cooker like home environments like that to cause irreversible rifts and estrangement. Better you move out, then stick around and have it come to that. Plus, you'll have a safe space ready for the younguns if they ever 'storm out of the house'. Believe you me, most young people get into a world a trouble because of this. Leaving the house, angry and frustrated and then ending up Waheguru knows where to get away. That's where a lot of abuse takes place, but I should also say that boys often learn to become streetwise in this way. With girls, we know what their outcome is usually going to be when they do this (groomed, abused and/or used).    

Firstly you'll have resentment directed towards you (by your family, and maybe even siblings for feeling deserted), but this move will hopefully give you an opportunity to redefine your relationship with your parents on a more positive footing. I do strongly believe that absence can make the heart grow fonder, and that familiarity frequently breeds contempt. I hope all the best for you, whatever decision you make.  

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On 10/20/2021 at 9:27 PM, Suchi said:

There seems to be alot of deceit involved in your plans.

Have you thought about having a family meeting and telling them how you feel? Perhaps tell them if you continue feeling unhappy you would have to move out. 

Also ask them to consider undergoing family therapy that involves the whole family where everyone gets their say? This way the therapist/consultant would have the job of pointing you all in the right direction that would benefit the whole family.  It might be expensive but then might save alot of heartache in the future for all concerned.  Maybe use someone who understands the culture, or even someone from the gurudwara who is capable of acting as a mediator. But don't skimp on cost if you can afford it. Find the right person. 

My instinct says you have not tried to handle this in a mature way though you clearly understand how this will impact on your younger siblings, as well as your parents. It's not a simple case of buying you way out. 

What are the causes of stress? Do you take regular holidays, outings as a family. A regular meal out can do wonders to build family bonds.  A weekend in the countryside can be very rejuvenating or even a day trip. 

As the eldest you have a responsibility to your younger siblings especially in the circumstances you are speaking of so before taking such drastic steps you should exhaust all possible alternatives. 

Who knows if you invest the time and money in your family now it may even save you money in the future. 

I'm not saying live with them forever but at least leave on a high after they are taught how to mentally adjust to new circumstances. 

Show them or learn a different way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't intend to deceive them or lie to them at all. I want to be honest with them fully and tell what I think atleast once. I have been thinking how I should tell them in the best way possible where I'm still saying everything I want to say and their potential negative reactions are minimized. I keep rehearsing in my head because then even if everyone gets very emotionally reactive, I will be less likely to react in the same way and make the situation worse.

I don't think they would ever go for family therapy or want to involve a third person and I wouldn't want that either. I plan on talking to them soon properly sharing my concerns but not telling them of my intent to move out ( I think I will type up what I plan on saying formally and seek for some final advice on parts of the good draft before going in). I don't want them to change for fear of me moving out as that's not rooted in a healthy place, nor do I want them to think I'm blackmailing them. The biggest points I'd talk to them about changing is the constant fighting/arguing they do daily with each other and sometimes with us. Then I'd also want to set boundaries properly where they stop dumping their emotional problems onto me or have me pick sides in their arguments, or try to have me help them sort out their emotional problems and then simultaneously treat me like an infant. But if I could just have one thing out of all of it I'd want some space and privacy in the house where I don't hear any sound coming from the rest of the house, no tv, no phonecalls, no arguing. .Just somewhere I can go to be alone undisturbed if they're not in a good mood. Someplace I can just go and sit with my mind and do some simran or reflection to find that happiness within. That's the biggest reason I want to move out. To have some quiet place where I can live in this peace. Sometimes I just sit in the washroom for like half an hour with the fan on cause that takes away a good bit of noise, and I just slow my mind down and sit with myself and focus internally. Within the first 10 minutes usually, the worst of the feelings are fading away and my mind starts to slow down and peace starts to come in. All it takes to feel better for me after a bad day is usually this or 20 minutes of simran before I go to sleep. I usually meditate before sleep cause I sleep the latest of everyone and so everyone else is asleep by then. That makes it much quieter and peaceful late at night but it's been screwing up my sleep schedule and productivity lately and I don't think are bodies are naturally meant to be nocturnal and so now I'm trying to fix that. With living at home right now, there isn't enough quietness or peace in the house throughout the day where I can focus fully on the simran or other habits I'm trying to build secretly but there's a small window of hours at night where I can do my simran, workout, work on some skills and be done my personal routine and most of my daily productivity before everyone even gets up or can know. I can overcome the negativity and draining effect because this routine is so energizing and powerful. Maybe I can have more space/quiet by fixing my routine and so maybe I won't have to move out, and maybe life can be good for everyone more often if I had enough energy to overpower my parent's energy and let that influence them positively like theirs influenced me negatively. Maybe they could change for the better. However, I feel like I wasted my entire day if I'm unable to get up early for a day because I missed the golden hours and the rest day is all off without that starting power boost. I've also noticed I'm usually much happier when I'm alone with my siblings and our parents are out somewhere and they're usually much happier too. That's when we usually can relax and really let go and have the most fun, like ordering pizza and watching a movie or some tv show.  I also want my parents to stop sharing things to others about my life (partly why I'm trying to build a secret routine), but I'd even more prefer if no one knew at all, because just having someone know of some good thing or quality or routine you have takes away from it and it's exponentially more worse if they tell others which they do by habit. I have hope for change, so I'm going to fix my routine and have a talk with my parents soon to see if we can make things work and see if things can change. I really want to spend time with my siblings and have a good relationship with my parents and have a good family environment overall so I will do the best I can. However, I am still making all the preparations for M-day(moving day) a few months away as a backup and my parents will have until then to show progress or otherwise I am out. In the absolute worst case, it's just a few more bad months of making my best effort and in the best case, the family improves and becomes whole.  

The rest is in guru sahib's hands.  I am going to gurduwara sahib this weekend and will take the morning parkash hukamana they usually have on the tv screen as my personal hukamana and do ardaas for everything to work out. Again thank you all for your advice. It helps clear up and organize my thoughts sharing them here with you and helps prevent me from making big lifelong mistakes and handle the situation better. 

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On 10/21/2021 at 1:26 AM, MisterrSingh said:

You've got a wise head on your shoulders. You'll be fine. 

There's no need for it all to end in acrimony and recriminations. I do think your parents are incapable of seeing any of the positives as you've described. I also believe they were relishing the opportunity of imposing their domineering selves on any potential daughters-in-law, but since you seem determined to flee the nest you'll rob them of this particular delight, too, lol. That would've caused you major problems in the future, btw.

It's not often I suggest Sikh sons leave the family home and their parents, but in your case I don't feel the reasons are superficial and shallow. If you'll forgive me for saying, but your parents seem to be on the extreme end of the Punjabi Narcissistic Sociopathy scale. Safe to say there will never be any change in their behaviour, meaning you'll always be on the receiving end of it. Offspring with similar behaviour patterns and personality types to such parents would probably have a great time with them, but your current lingering affection for them will turn to resentment and hatred if you don't put distance between them and yourselves.

Again, I don't like recommending "separation" but from what you've described they are incapable of introspective change. Give them a short, sharp shock, and they may perhaps reform some of their more obnoxious habits. Currently, they're luxuriating under the confident belief that the power resides with them. Undermine this confidence without burning bridges and making a jaloos.

I was actually worried a little about the potential daughter in law and just the other day they were talking how happy they would be to have a daughter in law to help out around the house and how much they would enjoy taking care of potential grandchildren. I was immediately imagining this imaginary wife getting into some argument with my parents about taking care of the child and then my parents coming to me to pick sides. 

I think one way of preventing the resentment and hatred from building up is to just dive all into the affection and love for them and to do as much as I can to make the situation better rather than letting it go off. It may hurt a lot if things don't workout but that's a necessary risk to change the relationship so much from where it is now to a healthy positive relationship.

On 10/24/2021 at 6:14 AM, dallysingh101 said:

Okay, you're lucky with having two siblings because it means duties can be divided instead of thrown on one head (later on)

I would not advise you to leave and take your brother with you. That's subjecting the olders to an excess of trauma. Get your own place sorted out. Make it near your parents place, because you'll have to keep an eye out for them and your younger siblings. You have to be able to get to them sharpish if required, especially as they age. By being closer, you'll save a lot of time and money, rather than having to traipse half way across town to reach them. You're the oldest boy, so in time you'll have the responsibility of an older before the others (unless you abdicate like a pu55y). 

See it as you've done your time there, and they have to do theirs. When you get your place, have your brother(s) come around and maybe the older one even stay overnight (occasionally).  I wouldn't tell anyone to move away from their parents lightly; but the sad fact is that  it's not unknown for pressure cooker like home environments like that to cause irreversible rifts and estrangement. Better you move out, then stick around and have it come to that. Plus, you'll have a safe space ready for the younguns if they ever 'storm out of the house'. Believe you me, most young people get into a world a trouble because of this. Leaving the house, angry and frustrated and then ending up Waheguru knows where to get away. That's where a lot of abuse takes place, but I should also say that boys often learn to become streetwise in this way. With girls, we know what their outcome is usually going to be when they do this (groomed, abused and/or used).    

Firstly you'll have resentment directed towards you (by your family, and maybe even siblings for feeling deserted), but this move will hopefully give you an opportunity to redefine your relationship with your parents on a more positive footing. I do strongly believe that absence can make the heart grow fonder, and that familiarity frequently breeds contempt. I hope all the best for you, whatever decision you make.  

If these next few months don't workout, this will basically be the backup option. There's a big family cost to you and your future generations for moving out and starting again on your own as well as your immediate family. Ideally, if a family can stick together and work together in a healthy way as a team unit and not harm each other, they can easily become a big success and lay the foundations for success for all future generations. The goal is now to see if everything can workout if I really make a full effort. 

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On 10/28/2021 at 3:08 AM, GuestSingh12345 said:

I don't intend to deceive them or lie to them at all. I want to be honest with them fully and tell what I think atleast once. I have been thinking how I should tell them in the best way possible where I'm still saying everything I want to say and their potential negative reactions are minimized. I keep rehearsing in my head because then even if everyone gets very emotionally reactive, I will be less likely to react in the same way and make the situation worse.

I don't think they would ever go for family therapy or want to involve a third person and I wouldn't want that either. I plan on talking to them soon properly sharing my concerns but not telling them of my intent to move out ( I think I will type up what I plan on saying formally and seek for some final advice on parts of the good draft before going in). I don't want them to change for fear of me moving out as that's not rooted in a healthy place, nor do I want them to think I'm blackmailing them. The biggest points I'd talk to them about changing is the constant fighting/arguing they do daily with each other and sometimes with us. Then I'd also want to set boundaries properly where they stop dumping their emotional problems onto me or have me pick sides in their arguments, or try to have me help them sort out their emotional problems and then simultaneously treat me like an infant. But if I could just have one thing out of all of it I'd want some space and privacy in the house where I don't hear any sound coming from the rest of the house, no tv, no phonecalls, no arguing. .Just somewhere I can go to be alone undisturbed if they're not in a good mood. Someplace I can just go and sit with my mind and do some simran or reflection to find that happiness within. That's the biggest reason I want to move out. To have some quiet place where I can live in this peace. Sometimes I just sit in the washroom for like half an hour with the fan on cause that takes away a good bit of noise, and I just slow my mind down and sit with myself and focus internally. Within the first 10 minutes usually, the worst of the feelings are fading away and my mind starts to slow down and peace starts to come in. All it takes to feel better for me after a bad day is usually this or 20 minutes of simran before I go to sleep. I usually meditate before sleep cause I sleep the latest of everyone and so everyone else is asleep by then. That makes it much quieter and peaceful late at night but it's been screwing up my sleep schedule and productivity lately and I don't think are bodies are naturally meant to be nocturnal and so now I'm trying to fix that. With living at home right now, there isn't enough quietness or peace in the house throughout the day where I can focus fully on the simran or other habits I'm trying to build secretly but there's a small window of hours at night where I can do my simran, workout, work on some skills and be done my personal routine and most of my daily productivity before everyone even gets up or can know. I can overcome the negativity and draining effect because this routine is so energizing and powerful. Maybe I can have more space/quiet by fixing my routine and so maybe I won't have to move out, and maybe life can be good for everyone more often if I had enough energy to overpower my parent's energy and let that influence them positively like theirs influenced me negatively. Maybe they could change for the better. However, I feel like I wasted my entire day if I'm unable to get up early for a day because I missed the golden hours and the rest day is all off without that starting power boost. I've also noticed I'm usually much happier when I'm alone with my siblings and our parents are out somewhere and they're usually much happier too. That's when we usually can relax and really let go and have the most fun, like ordering pizza and watching a movie or some tv show.  I also want my parents to stop sharing things to others about my life (partly why I'm trying to build a secret routine), but I'd even more prefer if no one knew at all, because just having someone know of some good thing or quality or routine you have takes away from it and it's exponentially more worse if they tell others which they do by habit. I have hope for change, so I'm going to fix my routine and have a talk with my parents soon to see if we can make things work and see if things can change. I really want to spend time with my siblings and have a good relationship with my parents and have a good family environment overall so I will do the best I can. However, I am still making all the preparations for M-day(moving day) a few months away as a backup and my parents will have until then to show progress or otherwise I am out. In the absolute worst case, it's just a few more bad months of making my best effort and in the best case, the family improves and becomes whole.  

The rest is in guru sahib's hands.  I am going to gurduwara sahib this weekend and will take the morning parkash hukamana they usually have on the tv screen as my personal hukamana and do ardaas for everything to work out. Again thank you all for your advice. It helps clear up and organize my thoughts sharing them here with you and helps prevent me from making big lifelong mistakes and handle the situation better. 

I think you have given us a good insight into your parents and family life. 

Having understood your situation I don't think your parents will pick up on subtle hints to improve their attitude and behaviour as you seem to expect. It may need more direct communication if you want to motivate them. 

And don't bank on knowing how they will react (with unconditional love) if they feel betrayed. 

 

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On 10/28/2021 at 3:36 AM, GuestSingh12345 said:

If these next few months don't workout, this will basically be the backup option. There's a big family cost to you and your future generations for moving out and starting again on your own as well as your immediate family. Ideally, if a family can stick together and work together in a healthy way as a team unit and not harm each other, they can easily become a big success and lay the foundations for success for all future generations. The goal is now to see if everything can workout if I really make a full effort. 

Also, if you move out and another sibling stays to look after them long term, expect repercussions on the inheritance front. Personally if certain kids looks after parents more than others (by say staying with them) I don't see anything wrong with them getting a lion's share myself. 

I'm just saying this so you know what you might experience. 

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