Namaaz not allowed in Gurdwara

[MisterrSingh]

4 hours ago, proactive said:

The offer was made last Friday and there has been opposition from both RW Hindu groups and Sikhs. This Friday Nihangs also stopped a committee from allowing Muslims to pray in a Gurdwara. It looks like the liberals are not getting their way. What is concerning is that the Akal Takht Jathedar or SGPC have not made a statement against this clear attack on the Rehat Maryada by Gurdwaras trying to win brownie points from liberals. 

Namaz interrupted by right-wing groups as prayer at Gurugram gurdwara opposed- The New Indian Express

I wish I could say I was surprised. I've been listening to katha from the main Sikh takhats on and off for at least 8 years, and one time or another the "big" kathavachaks (and the lesser known ones, too) cannot stop themselves from praising Mohammed, Islamic history and culture, etc., during their stints on stage. I knew it spelled bad news when I first heard them drag Islam into katha that was doing fine without any of the nonsense... well, here you go, this is the end result. These religious leaders and preachers tried being clever, thinking they could make allies of the Musleh against the Brahmin "machine", but like always our short-sightedness ends up biting us on the behind. We're only capable of chalakhiyan against our own. Chalakhiyan against one particular out-group ends up getting us involved with a notoriously deceptive and ruthless second group, which predictably ends with us doing our own besti.

We really do live in clown world when a right-wing Hindu group steps up to prevent something that WE shouldn't even have brought about in the first place! Absolute sharam.

On the plus side, everyone begrudges Sikhs when we take up arms against any non-Sikh group that's giving us grief, yet nobody has any objections when we go to town against our own. With this in mind, if it ever comes to sorting out these liberal Sikh cucks, there won't be MUCH of a hullabaloo in terms of objections. Obviously, you'll have Sunny Hundal penning the obvious "Sikhs are terrorists in the waiting" articles, but that's to be expected.

I told you fellers a few years ago those Instagram pictures of Sikhs holding umbrellas over praying Muslims was going to come back to haunt us. The optics of such images simply cannot be underestimated. We live in a world that most apne don't fully comprehend.

[jkvlondon]

3 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

The question then his how do we snuff out these "liberals" and marginalise them in our quam.

They are the enemy within. 

I don't think they can be reasoned without being called a "bigot" , "misogynist ", "islamophobe "

This "liberalism " is like a religion of it's own.

Because all this is going to do is give away to tyranny and authoritanism

 

 

parchaar of Dasmesh Pita ji's bani, solid rememberance of shaheeds (maybe even bring out shaheedi calendar as Sant ji and other gursikhs have pointed out is if we commerated our shaheeds we would remember everyday365 days a year, and not in the abstract way but in detail by giving saka of shaheed and bio profile) close the distance between our grasp of our own history under the four regimes and understanding current affairs of sikhs . Issuing of rehitname regarding our asthaans and how we are meant to respect others but only have faith in sikhi and its way. Maharaj di darbar , his will is followed and that it is not right to usurp his will on any point of maryada of dharamshaley.

Liberals can find their own non gurdwara/dharamshala venues to do their manmat , I am sure that if they had to shell out from the donations they collect the sikh supporters will be up in arms , it is because it is hidden expenditure of sikh daswand people are lulled into a false sense of innocuousness. 

Highlighting cases of attempts of grooming /abduction from nagar kirtans, vaisakhi melas etc would get the parents of daughters worried enough to object to such fake programs . Pointing out iftar in GUrdwarey in muslim lands is a recent and forced thing .

 

 

[GurjantGnostic]

They're only a few miles from a masjid. 

It would be better to help them organize themselves into a seperate space. 

Only in the harshest of crazy circumstances would this be appropriate. 

I don't think the line about Allah they read is out of line, so much as it's clearly against Rehit. 

We don't let anyone do anything except Aikido, in line with our policies in the Dojo. Only the rare visiting revered cultural artist and the taiko drummers have been welcome. No other Budo even, let alone another heritage of system entirely. 

We have had a few meditation types presented, studied with mentalists and psychologists though. 

[Ranjeet01]

3 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

We're only capable of chalakhiyan against our own. Chalakhiyan against one particular out-group ends up getting us involved with a notoriously deceptive and ruthless second group, which predictably ends with us doing our own besti.

I think this part of a larger Indic problem.

Treachery has always been part of our DNA, however in our history and our Pre-Sikh heritage we have never dealt with treachery.

There has never been any repercussions against traitors. 

 

[jkvlondon]

2 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

They're only a few miles from a masjid. 

It would be better to help them organize themselves into a seperate space. 

Only in the harshest of crazy circumstances would this be appropriate. 

I don't think the line about Allah they read is out of line, so much as it's clearly against Rehit. 

We don't let anyone do anything except Aikido, in line with our policies in the Dojo. Only the rare visiting revered cultural artist and the taiko drummers have been welcome. No other Budo even, let alone another heritage of system entirely. 

We have had a few meditation types presented, studied with mentalists and psychologists though. 

the only cases where this was appropriate was muslim bibiaan being banned from masjid and they asked if they could come to gurdwara (on the way to masjid) then the granthi offered if you want to pray the way you know you can do that in this other part of the building . The other was the masjid was literally underwater.

Muslims know that they are offending us if they do their namaz in hazoori , that's why when they came to Amritsar to thank sikhs for helping the Kashmiri kids get home they prayed on road outside not inside parikarma

[Jacfsing2]

14 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

the only cases where this was appropriate was muslim bibiaan being banned from masjid and they asked if they could come to gurdwara (on the way to masjid) then the granthi offered if you want to pray the way you know you can do that in this other part of the building . The other was the masjid was literally underwater.

Muslims know that they are offending us if they do their namaz in hazoori , that's why when they came to Amritsar to thank sikhs for helping the Kashmiri kids get home they prayed on road outside not inside parikarma

How’d the mosque get underwater?

[jkvlondon]

9 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

How’d the mosque get underwater?

floods in hilly area gurdwara was safe  but mosque wasn't

[proactive]

10 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

I wish I could say I was surprised. I've been listening to katha from the main Sikh takhats on and off for at least 8 years, and one time or another the "big" kathavachaks (and the lesser known ones, too) cannot stop themselves from praising Mohammed, Islamic history and culture, etc., during their stints on stage. I knew it spelled bad news when I first heard them drag Islam into katha that was doing fine without any of the nonsense... well, here you go, this is the end result. These religious leaders and preachers tried being clever, thinking they could make allies of the Musleh against the Brahmin "machine", but like always our short-sightedness ends up biting us on the behind. We're only capable of chalakhiyan against our own. Chalakhiyan against one particular out-group ends up getting us involved with a notoriously deceptive and ruthless second group, which predictably ends with us doing our own besti.

We really do live in clown world when a right-wing Hindu group steps up to prevent something that WE shouldn't even have brought about in the first place! Absolute sharam.

On the plus side, everyone begrudges Sikhs when we take up arms against any non-Sikh group that's giving us grief, yet nobody has any objections when we go to town against our own. With this in mind, if it ever comes to sorting out these liberal Sikh cucks, there won't be MUCH of a hullabaloo in terms of objections. Obviously, you'll have Sunny Hundal penning the obvious "Sikhs are terrorists in the waiting" articles, but that's to be expected.

I told you fellers a few years ago those Instagram pictures of Sikhs holding umbrellas over praying Muslims was going to come back to haunt us. The optics of such images simply cannot be underestimated. We live in a world that most apne don't fully comprehend.

This is the undoing of over 500 years of history, we had always kept up our guard against these people and even though we might not have known on what basis their enmity towards us lay, we knew that being friends with them was always a bad idea. Although the liberalisation of our religion started in the 1970s with the infiltration of left wing types into our institutions and their attempts to push Sikh youth into Naxalism, it was in the early 2000s that this disease started to take full hold.

Throughout the 1990s the Muslims had faced heat from the rising wave of Hindutva. Starting with Babri Masjid through to the Gujarat riots. The liberals, the Congress party and the Samajwadi and Leftist parties which have always allied with the Muslims and depended on their votes understood that they were losing Hindu support and that the Muslims would soon face more and more problems in their daily lives. So the liberals looked for others to ally with the Muslims so that there could be a buffer between the Muslims and Hindutva. That buffer was to be us and well have fallen for the liberal plan completely. 

Remember the so-called 'Guru Ki Maseet', when an ultra-liberal Delhi Sikh woman with connections to the liberal political establishment who incidentally is married to a Hindu came to Punjab in 2002 to preserve its heritage. Instead of trying to save Sikh historical buildings she started a project to publicise a Mosque which had been turned into a Gurdwara by the Nihangs and persuaded them that it needed to be preserved as a Mosque and returned to the Muslims. This Mosque for which there is scant evidence for its claims apart from the name which no one knows was first used to form a connection with Guru Hargobind suddenly became an important historical building.  This Mosque was used as a basis to form a new narrative that Sikhs should be helping Muslims if the latter were without places to pray. This then started the idiocy of Sikhs in villages donating land for the building of Mosques in their villages. This all tied in with the start of social media and the epidemic of 'likes' and 'retweets' and then you have the perfect storm of one village seeing another build a Mosque and they then decide to do the same. The narrative is always that these Muslims are 'bacharay' - poor and oppressed and Sikhs need to stand up for them. The fact that they outnumber Sikhs in India by nearly 10-1 does not enter into this narrative because apparently we are needed as a buffer to take the bullets while Muslim cower in safety behind us. The Kathavachaks seeing the trend in Punjab then started to give some positive spins to Muslim religious figures as a part of their Kathas. Sikh newspapers latched on to the change in attitude and they started to publish positive news stories about Sikhs helping Muslims using terms such as sarab sanjhiwala - brotherhood and manukhta - humanity etc. If you read any pre-1990s newspapers, you never see the use of such liberal key phrases in their stories. 

Our egos were purposefully inflated by the liberals and we were presented as brave community that needed to denfend the Muslims,  when the fact was that these very liberals had presided over and kept quiet when a whole generation of Sikh youth had been murdered in Punjab in the 1990s. Suddenly from being 'terrorists' and 'extremists' which the liberal media and liberal establishment had always presented any Sikh standing by his identity as, we were lauded with the slogans 'Singh is King'. If you want to see this transformation then read any pre-2001/2 liberal newspaper and then see the change in narrative after that. The plethora of Bollywood films highlighting the Sikh identity and presenting Sikhs as standing up to injustice is just a part of this narrative. 

Into this narrative comes Ravi Singh KA, a liberal looking for some purpose and in 1999 he starts his karobar- Khalsa Aid. He knows that the Sikhs abroad are much more aware than the ones in India and they would never fall from his liberal BS unless it is crouched in Sikhi, hence the use of Guru Gobind Singh's verse as its slogan without any context.  The Kosovo situation in 1999 came as a godsend for him. An ideal opportunity to gain some credibility so he started to fund raise in the Gurdwaras. He wasn't very successful but the Khalsa Aid brand had been built. The next year he had people walking around in the Nagar Kirtans with buckets asking for money to help the Sikhs who had been massacred at Chattisingpora that year. I remember asking one of these guys if they could guarantee that all the money collected was going to these Sikhs. All he would say was that the money would go to KA 'projects' I doubt a penny of that money went to any of those Sikh families but this kind of emotional fund raising is the norm for KA. They use Sikh issues to raise funds which are invariably used for non-Sikh causes which can then be used to buttress Ravi Singh's claim to a Nobel prize. 

The liberals want to use us against Modi and Hindutva. They know that even though the Muslims are 200 million, they cannot stand up to Hindutva. So they want to use us. The liberal  anti-CAA protests in Delhi were a farce and ended in ignominy. They tried to use us in that protest and some of our people fell for their nefarious efforts. One poor Sikh Lovepreet Singh fell for their narrative and went from Punjab to serve langar at the anti-CAA protests and he was eventually tortured by the Indian intelligence agencies and he was forced to commit suicide. None of these liberals did anything to help him.

Their anti-CAA protests were ended by a few hundred BJP thugs attacking the protesters showed and showed that these liberals are essentially cowards. They then needed another protest to latch on to, this they did with the Farmers protest. If you research the early days of the farmers protests, when they reached Delhi, the liberals who had latched on to the protests wanted to take it in the direction of a protest solely against Modi and the farm laws were just a part of the greater struggle. The liberals who controlled many of the farm union leaders through the comrade organisations in Punjab wanted to use the Sikhs and Sikhi in order to confront Modi and the BJP. The Sikhi they wanted was the 'sarab-sanjhiwalta - type of Sikhi,  the Sikhi of langars and Sikhs standing defending Muslims praying and they used many of these images in their propaganda. They had no use of the Sikhi of 'Raj Karega Khalsa', the Sikhi of the Nihangs and the Sikhi of the activists like Deep Sidhu who was using Sant Bhindranwale as a figure of inspiration. The liberals hated this, because they had been in power when Santji had been demonised and they could never allow the protest that they wanted to control to have anything to do with Santji. We all know how the interview of that arch liberal Barkha Dutt with Deep Sidhu went. Her refusal to even consider his contention that Santji was struggling against an oppressive government and that his demands were valid were hard for her to handle because the govt Santi was struggling against was a govt of liberals. 

Coming to the present, the liberal newspapers who have always been anti-Sikh such as the Hindustan Times, Indian Express  and India today are lauding people like that i.diot Sherdil Singh Sidhu for offering the Gurdwara for Namaz. He has already been given an award by some liberal organisation! A real world version of a 'like' and 'retweet'! 

The positive development has been that Sikhs and Nihangs have opposed the Namaz and this idiocy has been nipped in the bud for now. 

I apologise for the length of this post, but one thing we need to realise is that each and every act no matter who small will snowball and end up hurting us. Some Sikhs on here support Ravi Singh and KA as if he is some sort of messiah. He is not, I have no personal enmity with him but I know that his actions lately in pursuit of a Nobel prize has shown his real face to us. Someone willing to throw aside the Rehat Marayada and openly call on Gurdwaras to go against the Rehat Maryada should be considered in the same manner as Gangu Bahman. Ravi Singh KA is the person that some claim as the greatest Sikh of the 21st Century. I have a question of that person, I think his username is Premi5. Compare the greatest Sikh of the 20th Century Santi with Ravi Singh KA. Do you really think that Santji would be fine with Namaz in a Gurdwara? Santji understood the need for religious boundaries, just as a Muslim would not be ok with us doing Kirtan in a Mosque, Sikhs should not be going against the Rehat Maryada and allowing Namaz in a Gurdwara. 

[MisterrSingh]

20 minutes ago, proactive said:

 Ravi Singh KA is the person that some claim as the greatest Sikh of the 21st Century. I have a question of that person, I think his username is Premi5. Compare the greatest Sikh of the 20th Century Santi with Ravi Singh KA. Do you really think that Santji would be fine with Namaz in a Gurdwara? Santji understood the need for religious boundaries, just as a Muslim would not be ok with us doing Kirtan in a Mosque, Sikhs should not be going against the Rehat Maryada and allowing Namaz in a Gurdwara. 

A fair amount of skulduggery goes on in this forum that seems innocuous on the surface.

[MisterrSingh]

Ravi Singh's not getting a Nobel Peace prize. If he truly believes he can fundraise his way to one, he's deluded. Sikhs don't carry any leverage or impact the world in the social and political arenas that such "prestigious" awards require. To be let into the "club", you basically need to perpetuate the narrative of the status quo that's permeated the culture and history of Western nations for the past 80-100 years.

Admittedly, he's latched onto the "Muslim victim" narrative thinking that will get him in, but he's misunderstood his own role in the situation. Him being a Sikh bending over backwards for Musleh doesn't mean squat, because in the wider Western world it's not commonplace knowledge that Muslims and Sikhs have a volatile history. Sure, there's pockets of civilians who know the tension exists (limited arguably to the British isles due to obvious colonial history), but in terms of this conflict's place in the greater context of Earth's history, it's just a medieval regional squabble that's been dragged out over the centuries because, as others might see it, prejudices being passed down the generations. Heck, the masses of the North American continent think Musleh and Sikhs are the same. Mainland Europe doesn't give a 5hit. So what's the "hook" that's going to be used in order to "sell" the emotive rhetoric that is required as background context for these cynical narratives?

If Ravi Singh was Jewish or Christian (or even a Yazidi), then maybe the Establishment would take him to their bosom, because of the cultural and religious heft such a gesture entails. But as it is, he's selling out his religion and its long-term stability in regards to image and perception for very little to no actual gain.