Dead zameer (conscience)

[Kaurr]

3 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Which wokeys are those?

You know you all are using woke wrong right? But I guess that's most the web now. 

That's a really convenient word to be misappropriated. 

Yeah I know, but the original term woke has kind of lost it's meaning. The wokeys I'm talking about are those non-binary 500 billion genders and those women are always victims and all men are misogonysts and how men have no problems in life and those f the patriarchy and f all white people. 

[GurjantGnostic]

55 minutes ago, Kaurr said:

Yeah I know, but the original term woke has kind of lost it's meaning. The wokeys I'm talking about are those non-binary 500 billion genders and those women are always victims and all men are misogonysts and how men have no problems in life and those f the patriarchy and f all white people. 

Yeah. While my stomach churns trying to come up with a fitting word for that that totally degenerate, self entitled, ignorant often abusive idiocy I don't have one. It sure as <banned word filter activated> isn't woke. It's ... it hurts my brain. 

[Suchi]

On 12/12/2021 at 11:55 AM, MisterrSingh said:

Yes, a good summary of how the "original" Sikhi (if not in a standardised or codified sense but more a philosophical idea) has been co-opted and almost warped to serve an antithetical agenda. BUT we (as in the rank and file) have allowed it to happen. As much as we can blame Brahmins, Brits, and the rest of it, our apathy and our greed has led to this situation. If we'd stood firm, nobody could've taken the pashaab.

****

I would also add something of my own: having read up on global history over the millennia and associated spiritual ideas of various cultures, one consistent strand that reveals itself when we look at how belief systems are corrupted is through their respective Priesthoods. For me, this is a problem. If your mode of worship or spiritual path is predicated on the core idea of requiring a intercessionary figure to perform prayers, rituals, or even a saint-type figurehead, etc., it's safe to say your belief system has been corrupted. The eternal struggle between the Warrior and the Priest is well documented (the wiliness and politicking of the Priest eventually winning out), and perhaps this is why Guru Gobind Singh realised the ideal Man is one who embodies the best of both ideals. Just something to consider.

It's not black and white. Humans respond depending on prevailing circumstances. There are accounts of Sanyasis forming armies in Bengal in order to counter both Muslims fakirs and British soldiers, with some success. 

https://satyaagrah.com/history/diary/768-indian-freedom-movement-you-ve-never-heard-of-sanyasi-rebellion-hindustan-s-first-war-of-independence

[Kau89r8]

Should be interesting ..

Any thoughts on visual of video...

Maybe Pakistani dancers presented in video..who wants to bet

[Kau89r8]

On 12/12/2021 at 8:28 PM, Kaurr said:

. My entire life, my dad (who grew up on Punjab) had told me to be aware of Muslims and don't even think about getting with a Muslim man because they will make you convert and then f you up cause women have no say.

 

Thats no hidden secret. 47 Singhs killed their daughters instead facing the M gangs crossing the borders.  Been since beginning of islam...I give them credit at least they doing what Islamic teaches them to do.. spread the world of allah. Also if they convert non-believers or those who are different faiths they get extra points when they reach heaven...its part of their duty...

[MisterrSingh]

On 12/12/2021 at 5:17 PM, Suchi said:

Ultimately, the key is the quality of the individual, regardless of the philosophy being proposed. 

Whilst the leaders of any group may possess supreme qualities, that even perhaps a few of their followers manage to emulate, most are unable to do so especially if their leader has gone.  Hence why in times of war, the leaders are targeted first as the rest will fall away once he is captured. 

So any system of control is always vulnerable until it has been established for decades with all the group members strictly adhering to rituals or inculcating habits that will see it thrive for generations.  Otherwise it will fail at the first hurdle.

Absolutely, 100%.

It's this idea that has lead me to emphasise my belief that the Sikh religion is on its decline because it simply doesn't have the strength in depth (in terms of "time served" from a civilisational sense) to bat away other longer-established religions and popular belief systems / ideologies.

Sikhs of today - and I say this objectively without any emotion - are mediocre to useless even those who've set themselves up as bearers of knowledge and scriptures. Most people reading this will immediately leap to the conclusion that to rectify this downward trend we need to be more religiously observant or stringent in our practices, but that's not the solution. I don't believe there is a solution in as much as "saving" anything. You've just got to let it happen and see where the pieces fall.

[GurjantGnostic]

2 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

Absolutely, 100%.

It's this idea that has lead me to emphasise my belief that the Sikh religion is on its decline because it simply doesn't have the strength in depth (in terms of "time served" from a civilisational sense) to bat away other longer-established religions and popular belief systems / ideologies.

Sikhs of today - and I say this objectively without any emotion - are mediocre to useless even those who've set themselves up as bearers of knowledge and scriptures. Most people reading this will immediately leap to the conclusion that to rectify this downward trend we need to be more religiously observant or stringent in our practices, but that's not the solution. I don't believe there is a solution in as much as "saving" anything. You've just got to let it happen and see where the pieces fall.

We change what's done at the Gurudwara level. What the lifestyle entails, what we offer? Sikhi will be packed. 

Add some shameless self asuredness. Swag swag swag. 

[MisterrSingh]

3 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

We change what's done at the Gurudwara level. What the lifestyle entails, what we offer? Sikhi will be packed. 

Add some shameless self asuredness. Swag swag swag. 

That would be the natural route to take to at least reduce the speed of the decline. But the people at the top are infuriatingly resistant to anything that decreases their control and power. They've settled into a routine, and even if someone were to arrive with a fool-proof plan that was nothing but pro-Sikh and pro-Maryada, there would still be resistance on the part of these "custodians" owing to their own insecurities and fears. When a person's roti or livelihood depends on perpetuating the status-quo, they'd go to any lengths to ensure things stay as they are.

[Jacfsing2]

1 hour ago, MisterrSingh said:

That would be the natural route to take to at least reduce the speed of the decline. But the people at the top are infuriatingly resistant to anything that decreases their control and power. They've settled into a routine, and even if someone were to arrive with a fool-proof plan that was nothing but pro-Sikh and pro-Maryada, there would still be resistance on the part of these "custodians" owing to their own insecurities and fears. When a person's roti or livelihood depends on perpetuating the status-quo, they'd go to any lengths to ensure things stay as they are.

I think it matters very little on who actually controls the Gurdwaras if our soch is not ultimately based on Sikhi in the spirit; as most aam Banda will view gurdwaras the same, (eating Langar, showing off clothes, and gossiping about stuff). We could hypothetically have Gurdwaras run completely according to Gurmat, and still have our society be backwards. Even when our Gurdwaras were owned by Hindu Mahants, the Aam Sikh was still more in Sikhi soch than they are today. 

[MisterrSingh]

3 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

I think it matters very little on who actually controls the Gurdwaras if our soch is not ultimately based on Sikhi in the spirit; as most aam Banda will view gurdwaras the same, (eating Langar, showing off clothes, and gossiping about stuff). We could hypothetically have Gurdwaras run completely according to Gurmat, and still have our society be backwards. Even when our Gurdwaras were owned by Hindu Mahants, the Aam Sikh was still more in Sikhi soch than they are today. 

Not the Gurdwara but the Panth itself. The Gurdwara is irrelevant.