Differences between Majha, Doaba and Malwa Sikhs

[NaamTiharoJoJape]

On 12/18/2021 at 11:38 AM, dallysingh101 said:

Bhai ji, it's more complicated than that. Look at how many of these rural, backwater places have evil organisations like the KKK running through them. Normalised incest and other weird things. I think between rural and urban, both have strong points and weak points. 

And we can't ignore the fact that most of our rural people are itching to come out to the west and live an urban life.  

most of these things are stereotypes of course

urban life is on the decline and most americans prefer suburbs 

[Jacfsing2]

Just now, NaamTiharoJoJape said:

most of these things are stereotypes of course

urban life is on the decline and most americans prefer suburbs 

Suburbs are more restrictive than urban life. 

[NaamTiharoJoJape]

2 minutes ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Suburbs are more restrictive than urban life. 

yet the largest shifts in population and fastest growth we are seeing right now are to suburban areas, ive lived in both 

a major part of the urbanization was jobs and industries being based in urban areas which is why employees would move to those areas but nowadays there is a trend in more and more jobs being distant/from home (only accelerated by this pandemic) and even some companies making workplaces optional for you to come if you want to (sort of like libraries) so there is an gradual reduction in the practical need to live in urban areas apart from personal preference 

 

[Premi5]

10 hours ago, NaamTiharoJoJape said:

most sikhs here in doaba are from lehnda punjab and many from the himachals (pahari raje and sipahis) , something to do with that perhaps? 

I highly doubt most doaba Sikhs are  from Lehnda Panjab. I would doubt it's anything more than 10-15%. 

I think many of the Lehnda Sikhs were settled in what is now Haryana

@proactive is knowledgable on this

[proactive]

The resettlement depended on what background the migrants were. If they were colonialist from the canal colonies of Lyallpur, Sargodha or Montgomery then they were resettled in their own home districts from which they had gone from to the canal colonies a few decades earlier. If the allotment of land abandoned by Muslims in their village was not enough then they would be allotted land as close as possible to their village. 

For non-colonialists, that is those who had lost their ancestral lands in west Punjab, they were resettled in east Punjab and PEPSU depending on which district they came from in Pakistan. For landholders from Lahore district which was a part of Majha there was no enough agricultural land abandoned by Muslims in Amritsar district to replace the land lost in Lahore, so they were resettled in Ferozepur district. Even the colonialists who had gone to the canal colonies from Amritsar originally, even their losses could not be compensated in Amritsar such as the lack of land abandoned by Muslims, they were resettled in Ferozpur, Hoshiarpur and Jalandhar. Landholders from Gujranwala and Sheikhupura were resettled in Karnal and PEPSU (Patiala and East Punjab States Union) . From Shahpur and Gujrat went to Ambala. From Multan to Hissar. Jhang and Mianwali to Rohtak. Dera Ghazi Khan and Mianwali to Gurgaon. From Sialkot to Gurdaspur and Hoshiarpur. 

The compensation that these landholders received was restricted because they lost 6.7 million acres and there were only 4.7 million available. So graded cuts were made. If someone lost up to 10 acres they got 75% compensation, if between 10-30 acres they got 70%, 40 - 60 acres got 60%. All the way up to those who lost 500-1000 acres they only got 5-10% compensation. So if someone lost 10 acres they got 7.5 acres as compensation but if they lost 1000 acres they only got a maximum of 127 acres. 

 

 

[Premi5]

6 hours ago, proactive said:

The resettlement depended on what background the migrants were. If they were colonialist from the canal colonies of Lyallpur, Sargodha or Montgomery then they were resettled in their own home districts from which they had gone from to the canal colonies a few decades earlier. If the allotment of land abandoned by Muslims in their village was not enough then they would be allotted land as close as possible to their village. 

For non-colonialists, that is those who had lost their ancestral lands in west Punjab, they were resettled in east Punjab and PEPSU depending on which district they came from in Pakistan. For landholders from Lahore district which was a part of Majha there was no enough agricultural land abandoned by Muslims in Amritsar district to replace the land lost in Lahore, so they were resettled in Ferozepur district. Even the colonialists who had gone to the canal colonies from Amritsar originally, even their losses could not be compensated in Amritsar such as the lack of land abandoned by Muslims, they were resettled in Ferozpur, Hoshiarpur and Jalandhar. Landholders from Gujranwala and Sheikhupura were resettled in Karnal and PEPSU (Patiala and East Punjab States Union) . From Shahpur and Gujrat went to Ambala. From Multan to Hissar. Jhang and Mianwali to Rohtak. Dera Ghazi Khan and Mianwali to Gurgaon. From Sialkot to Gurdaspur and Hoshiarpur. 

The compensation that these landholders received was restricted because they lost 6.7 million acres and there were only 4.7 million available. So graded cuts were made. If someone lost up to 10 acres they got 75% compensation, if between 10-30 acres they got 70%, 40 - 60 acres got 60%. All the way up to those who lost 500-1000 acres they only got 5-10% compensation. So if someone lost 10 acres they got 7.5 acres as compensation but if they lost 1000 acres they only got a maximum of 127 acres. 

 

 

Is there any truth to what @SikhKoshhas said regarding the resettlement of Sikhs outside of core Panjab, what you think?

 

 

[proactive]

3 minutes ago, Premi5 said:

Is there any truth to what @SikhKoshhas said regarding the resettlement of Sikhs outside of core Panjab, what you think?

 

 

This could be true to some respects.  There are many stories told of Patel turning a blind eye as Home minster to the arming of the Sikh Jathas by the Sikh states and the use of their armies in clearing East Punjab of Muslims. He also  blocked arresting Master Tara Singh when Mountbatten wanted the Indian govt to arrest him and other Sikh leaders. Later on after the partition there are stories told of how he expressed surprise at how many Sikh officers there were when he visited one of the army camps and he actively worked to reduce the number of Sikhs in the army. There is no doubt that the success that Sikhs had shown in clearing East Punjab scared the Indian govt and the Sikh migrations were seen as a threat to Delhi itself given how many Sikhs had migrated to the borders of Delhi. There was a MI5 report that was posted here a few years ago which predicted that the Sikhs would soon carve out a state of their now now that they had tasted success in clearing east Punjab of the Muslims. 

The pro-Muslim league governor of west Punjab Mudie even went as far as to warn Jinnah that an invasion of West Punjab was likely by Sikhs and that the Sikh migration was seen as an evacuation and that the Sikhs would return in force once they regrouped in East Punjab.

There was open talk of a Sikh invasion of Lahore. “THIS MAY SOUND ALARMIST,” West Punjab Governor Sir Francis Mudie wrote to Jinnah, the passage marked out in boldface type, “BUT IF ANYONE SIX MONTHS AGO HAD PREDICTED WHAT THE SIKHS HAVE ACCOMPLISHED IN THE LAST TWO MONTHS, HE WOULD HAVE BEEN LAUGHED TO SCORN. WE CAN AFFORD TO TAKE NO RISKS.”

 

The Qadiani Zafarullah who represented Pakistan at the United Nations wanted a resolution against the Sikhs because of the 'genocide' of Muslims in East Punjab.

There is no doubt that it would have suited the Indian govt to prevent Sikhs from obtaining a majority in many of the districts of East Punjab but the rehabilitation minister of East Punjab Sardar Ujjal Singh ensured that as many Sikhs from rural areas settled in East Punjab north of the Ghaggar river and Pepsu. There were claims by Hindus that this a conspiracy by the Sikhs but the rural Hindus who migrated from West Punjab were from areas further west like Multan, Muzaffargarh and Mianwali so their resettlement could be affected in Haryana area because they had no links with East  Punjab but the rural Sikhs who were from west Punjab districts like Lahore, Sheikhupura, Gujranwala etc wanted to settle in the districts where they had relatives or links in terms of ethnic affinity. The Sikh Lobanas from Gujrat district settled almost en masse in Kapurthala area of Pepsu.  

There is anecdotal evidence of some Sikhs from Sheikhupura being allotted land in Saharanpur district and they not wanting to settle there and selling up and buying land among their brethren from Sheikhupura settled in Karnal district. 

[dallysingh101]

10 hours ago, proactive said:

The resettlement depended on what background the migrants were. If they were colonialist from the canal colonies of Lyallpur, Sargodha or Montgomery then they were resettled in their own home districts from which they had gone from to the canal colonies a few decades earlier. If the allotment of land abandoned by Muslims in their village was not enough then they would be allotted land as close as possible to their village. 

For non-colonialists, that is those who had lost their ancestral lands in west Punjab, they were resettled in east Punjab and PEPSU depending on which district they came from in Pakistan. For landholders from Lahore district which was a part of Majha there was no enough agricultural land abandoned by Muslims in Amritsar district to replace the land lost in Lahore, so they were resettled in Ferozepur district. Even the colonialists who had gone to the canal colonies from Amritsar originally, even their losses could not be compensated in Amritsar such as the lack of land abandoned by Muslims, they were resettled in Ferozpur, Hoshiarpur and Jalandhar. Landholders from Gujranwala and Sheikhupura were resettled in Karnal and PEPSU (Patiala and East Punjab States Union) . From Shahpur and Gujrat went to Ambala. From Multan to Hissar. Jhang and Mianwali to Rohtak. Dera Ghazi Khan and Mianwali to Gurgaon. From Sialkot to Gurdaspur and Hoshiarpur. 

The compensation that these landholders received was restricted because they lost 6.7 million acres and there were only 4.7 million available. So graded cuts were made. If someone lost up to 10 acres they got 75% compensation, if between 10-30 acres they got 70%, 40 - 60 acres got 60%. All the way up to those who lost 500-1000 acres they only got 5-10% compensation. So if someone lost 10 acres they got 7.5 acres as compensation but if they lost 1000 acres they only got a maximum of 127 acres. 

 

 

Seems to be a lot of Sikhs formerly from Lahore settled around Ludhiana, any info on this? 

[proactive]

57 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Seems to be a lot of Sikhs formerly from Lahore settled around Ludhiana, any info on this? 

Depends if it is rural or urban settlers.  As I stated above the vast majority of landholders from Lahore district were resettled in Ferozepur district. Out of a total of 341K acres allotted to landholders from Lahore 274K acres were allotted in Ferozepur district. Ludhiana got only a few thousand acres. This was mainly because Ludhiana had  many colonialists who had moved to the canal colonies in the early 1900s and they were settled in their own villages and their losses were compensated by land left by the Muslims in nearby villages. Even though these colonialists had only left a few decades earlier from these villages, for many years they were still referred to a BAARIYE' meaning from the Bar which were how the wastelands were referred to prior to them becoming canal colonies. The only non-Ludhiana settlers they got were Rai Sikhs from Montgomery who were settled in the 'Bet' villages close to the Satluj river abandoned by the Muslims. Many urban Sikhs from Lahore itself settled in Ludhiana. 

[Premi5]

10 hours ago, proactive said:

Depends if it is rural or urban settlers.  As I stated above the vast majority of landholders from Lahore district were resettled in Ferozepur district. Out of a total of 341K acres allotted to landholders from Lahore 274K acres were allotted in Ferozepur district. Ludhiana got only a few thousand acres. This was mainly because Ludhiana had  many colonialists who had moved to the canal colonies in the early 1900s and they were settled in their own villages and their losses were compensated by land left by the Muslims in nearby villages. Even though these colonialists had only left a few decades earlier from these villages, for many years they were still referred to a BAARIYE' meaning from the Bar which were how the wastelands were referred to prior to them becoming canal colonies. The only non-Ludhiana settlers they got were Rai Sikhs from Montgomery who were settled in the 'Bet' villages close to the Satluj river abandoned by the Muslims. Many urban Sikhs from Lahore itself settled in Ludhiana. 

@proactive so much knowledge, how ?!

Super impressed