India's Four Religions Should Be Together

[Ranjeet01]

18 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

I tHink you're being a little overly hopeful. My take on this phenomena is this is typical Islamic tricks. They pander and flatter to get our guard down, and then they sweep in with their tried and tested conversion tactics.

Well, maybe I could be hopeful.

But I have been watching a some youtube channels of some well known Raggis. They did this tour of Pakistan Gurdwaras, it was quite eye opening.

For all the yatris that come from India and elsewhere, there are a lot of Sangat there that were the native Pakistan non-Sikh population (and not just the Hindus in Sindh). There were muslims doing kirtan and some of them read Bani.

I could not quite understand it.

Something quite weird, it seems that grassroots Pakistanis seems to be quite open to Bani but it seems that their Ulema will find it threatening.

If you think about it, the average Pakistani will understand Bani quite naturally whereas none of them can speak or understand Arabic.

Maybe I am looking too much into it.

[ipledgeblue]

58 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Well, maybe I could be hopeful.

But I have been watching a some youtube channels of some well known Raggis. They did this tour of Pakistan Gurdwaras, it was quite eye opening.

For all the yatris that come from India and elsewhere, there are a lot of Sangat there that were the native Pakistan non-Sikh population (and not just the Hindus in Sindh). There were muslims doing kirtan and some of them read Bani.

I could not quite understand it.

Something quite weird, it seems that grassroots Pakistanis seems to be quite open to Bani but it seems that their Ulema will find it threatening.

If you think about it, the average Pakistani will understand Bani quite naturally whereas none of them can speak or understand Arabic.

Maybe I am looking too much into it.

I really recommend watching Mardana Project youtube channel. They actually go and meet some muslim keertanis, and I think some of them are Mardana's descendants. Some of these muslim murids are actually keeping Raag maeyada maryada which nowadays even Singhs are too lazy to keep and may even become argumentative over! 

[proactive]

8 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Well, maybe I could be hopeful.

But I have been watching a some youtube channels of some well known Raggis. They did this tour of Pakistan Gurdwaras, it was quite eye opening.

For all the yatris that come from India and elsewhere, there are a lot of Sangat there that were the native Pakistan non-Sikh population (and not just the Hindus in Sindh). There were muslims doing kirtan and some of them read Bani.

I could not quite understand it.

Something quite weird, it seems that grassroots Pakistanis seems to be quite open to Bani but it seems that their Ulema will find it threatening.

If you think about it, the average Pakistani will understand Bani quite naturally whereas none of them can speak or understand Arabic.

Maybe I am looking too much into it.

I think there is a ban on Muslims entering Nankana Sahib Gurdwara instituted by the Government and this could also be the case for other historic Gurdwaras in Pakistan. This is due to the security situation there. There is no doubt that many Muslims in Pakistan are moving away from Islam for a number of reasons. I sometimes watch Harris Sultan's youtube channel and although he is anti all religions, he does say that no all religions are as bad as Islam. Many Muslims write to him and tell him that they have left Islam due to his channel. As he said in one of his videos that the ONE thing that breaks many Pakistani Muslims adherence to Islam is when they come across the sex slaves issue. The vast majority of Muslims in Pakistan may have attended Madrassas and may even be able to recite the Quran but VERY FEW actually understand the meaning of the verses let alone read the Hadiths which contain the sayings and actions of Mohammed which inform Islamic law. They look to the Mullahs at the Mosque or the religious TV channels to explain the verses of the Quran. 

Due to the unearned and unwarranted praise that Muslims heap on Mohammed, claiming him to the 'mercy to mankind' and the 'perfect man' most Pakistani Muslims start from the position that Mohammed is unmatched in history. But that fake facade soon crumbles when they are taught what he actually did in his life such as allowing captured women to be raped by his followers as well as murdering the family of one Jewish woman and then marrying her the same night. Pakistanis like all of people of south Asia have a honour culture. If they are presented with the example that say if the Indian army invaded and captured Pakistan and then proceeded to murder all the men and then kept their wives, mothers and daughters as sex slave how would they feel? This comes as a shock to many especially as they have never been told this about Mohammed and they understand that such a person is very far from being a 'mercy to mankind'. Once the bubble of Mohammed's uniqueness and prophethood is burst then all the rest of the limitations of Islam slip into place. 

Now compare the character of Mohammed with the Gurus. If Pakistan Muslims are presented with a comparison of Mohammed who allowed his men to rape women and Guru Gobind Singh who forbade the rape of captured women in battle and made sure that they were sent back to their side in safety then it would be interesting to know what effect this will have on the normal Pakistani Muslim. Add to this the fact that even our enemies such as Qazi Nur Mohammed praised this aspect of our rules of warfare even though he referred to us as Sag or dogs. If we want to shatter the hold of Islam on the Pakistani Muslim and bring him/her to Sikhi then this is one aspect that we need to highlight. 

[proactive]

16 minutes ago, ipledgeblue said:

I really recommend watching Mardana Project youtube channel. They actually go and meet some muslim keertanis, and I think some of them are Mardana's descendants. Some of these muslim murids are actually keeping Raag maeyada which nowadays even Singhs are too lazy to keep and may even become argumentative over! 

I've seen their videos. They seem like usual liberal dimwits to be honest. They love to highlight the fact that Mirasis used to do Kirtan in Durbar Sahib pre-1947 but do not delve too deeply into why we should again allow  those who follow a Manmat in their daily lives to do Kirtan in our most holiest of Gurdwaras? These Mirasis do kurliyan after the sing Kirtan so that they can 'clean' their mouths after they have sung 'kafir' verses. These dimwits of Mardana project gloss over this fact and the gora guy even tries to justify this because they live in an Islamic society. As as I said total liberal dimwits. 

[ipledgeblue]

22 minutes ago, proactive said:

I've seen their videos. They seem like usual liberal dimwits to be honest. They love to highlight the fact that Mirasis used to do Kirtan in Durbar Sahib pre-1947 but do not delve too deeply into why we should again allow  those who follow a Manmat in their daily lives to do Kirtan in our most holiest of Gurdwaras? These Mirasis do kurliyan after the sing Kirtan so that they can 'clean' their mouths after they have sung 'kafir' verses. These dimwits of Mardana project gloss over this fact and the gora guy even tries to justify this because they live in an Islamic society. As as I said total liberal dimwits. 

true, so why not instead us sikhs try to preserve the maryada ourselves instead of relying on others?

[proactive]

2 minutes ago, ipledgeblue said:

true, so why not instead us sikhs try to preserve the maryada ourselves instead of relying on others?

Is that all you got from my post?

What are your views on the true nature of these Mirasis who make money from Kirtan and yet do a kurli after they sing it? If you didn't know that already then you are ignorant and should not even be commenting of this issue, if you knew about it and yet are willing to gloss over this then that makes it even worse. 

[proactive]

6 minutes ago, ipledgeblue said:

true, so why not instead us sikhs try to preserve the maryada ourselves instead of relying on others?

Here is someone who has SIKH SAROOP who has been preserving our musical heritage and who has taken back his support of the Mardana Project.

 

[ipledgeblue]

1 minute ago, proactive said:

Is that all you got from my post?

What are your views on the true nature of these Mirasis who make money from Kirtan and yet do a kurli after they sing it? If you didn't know that already then you are ignorant and should not even be commenting of this issue, if you knew about it and yet are willing to gloss over this then that makes it even worse. 

I heard about the Mirasis that visited Harimandir Sahib, no idea about the ones who perform keertan in Pakistan. I am not willing to gloss over these facts. However I am also not willing to gloss over the facts that Singhs aren't trying much to preserve keertan maryada, whereas there are mirasis and naamdharis doing so...

[ipledgeblue]

3 minutes ago, proactive said:

Here is someone who has SIKH SAROOP who has been preserving our musical heritage and who has taken back his support of the Mardana Project.

 

of course, but not enough Singhs are trying to do this. I have seen Raj Academy, Jawaadi Taksal, Baru Sahib and Singhs interviewed on Mardana Project. Even with all those organisations and groups, it's still a small minority inside the visible sikh panth.

[proactive]

First you said this -;

Quote

true, so why not instead us sikhs try to preserve the maryada ourselves instead of relying on others?

And then  you wrote this-;

Quote

of course, but not enough Singhs are trying to do this. I have seen Raj Academy, Jawaadi Taksal, Baru Sahib and Singhs interviewed on Mardana Project. Even with all those organisations and groups, it's still a small minority inside the visible sikh panth.

So from saying we have to rely on others and we are doing nothing to then saying we are not doing enough! You should own up to your ignorance. We don't need to be chasing dodgy so-called descendants of Bhai Mardana, we should be producing our own scholars of Kirtan which the institutes you alluded to are already doing. The £20K these Mardana Project guys managed to get donated to them will be used to confuse Sikhs and try and eradicate the Sikh contribution to Kirtan and project these dodgy Mirasasi as the true heirs of our traditions.