Ideally, how many children should Sikhs be having?

[GurjantGnostic]

Consider of everybody in the Sangat that works on their cars at home, having you know, their own jack, their own wrenches, their own sockets, extenders, their own this their own that blah blah blah. Garage full of tools. 

For twice the amount of money that one person invests so let's say for two people's money or three I mean we could have our own garage?

Instead of none of us having any room in our garage. 

And you just have it at one of the bungas where everyone can get together and work on their cars and listen to Kirtan. 

We could even buy and sell junk cars after fixing them up or give them to people that need them within the community you know single mom broke or something like that. 

[GurjantGnostic]

I mean total up all the dollars that gets put into sports, after school programs, martial arts, music, tutoring. If all that money goes to us, why don't we just do that instead, and because we're offering all the things, the overhead is going to be less for us than all those businesses that have to support their storefronts and XYZ location we can easily undercut everybody for ourselves by ourselves. 

Most of the space is already paid for it's just empty most the time. 

As soon as we outgrow that or we run into things that just have to be to different property, well we're vibing right at that point let's get that property. 

Many of us pay ro send our kids to be preyed upon by outsiders, how about we charge outsiders to be protected by our kids instead? Real Sangat has no or low price. Outsiders pay more. A lot more. 

[GurjantGnostic]

Gurudwara should be full all day, everyday, almost 24 hours dude if not 24 hours. 

And our women, who don't have to work if they don't want to, with their children, could be a large part of this Sevadar Force. 

Supported by a suitable number of fighting males. 

[GurjantGnostic]

All right last tangent but we need our own bath houses with our own saunas our own steam rooms you know what I'm saying with a laundry facility. 

[GurjantGnostic]

Last tangent he says...lol...and we need rural land and land within society both. The city needs to feed the rural area money and the rural area needs to feed the city people proper food and a fallback position in case of apocalypse. 

[GurjantGnostic]

Oh and about taxes we need to start dealing in things other than money because that's not taxed. And we need to make use of every religious nonprofit exemption and type of business practice so that any money we touch we don't have to give to these imperials bro. And in situations where we were going to have to accept money and pay taxes on it, shoot turn that into something we need and just give me that make a food donation. Buy the land deed to this little rural pot of land instead and just sign that over to the Sangat you know what I'm saying?

Back to saving money unintentionally, if everyone's saving a bunch of money because the way that we help each other, and we can afford to give more of the Gurudwara, then our taxable income becomes less and we save money just on taxes even. 

Not that Daswand is about what you get for it. But we be fools not to optimize this whole process so that we get the most from it and we can give the most because of that. 

In the realm of survival prepping, socially helping each other, and forming cooperatives and things like this, unfortunately all flavors of christian in this country are ahead of us good bad and indifferent. 

What we could do however?  Nobody's doing.  We could blow everybody out of the water. 

We could have a Sangat that Purtan Gursikhs wpuld recognize. 

I mean we've all seen how diverse the activities in the pictures surrounding the Guru Sahiban are right?

Everything from laundry, to food preparation, from Degh Seva to wrestling. Lectures on Gurmat as well as worldly educational issues. Medicine and Care being provided. 

[Kaurr]

4 kids is the plan. 

A lot of young women don't want to live with their in laws, including myself, because they have seen what has happen to their mothers. I know so many immigrant Punjabi women, including some people from my family, that if they had not settled abroad away from their in laws, then they would not have survived because of how messed up and controlling the families are. It is possible to have 4 kids without living with the in laws and the mother still working part time. I have a southern European friend with 4 siblings in total, with a few that are below the age of 12, and the mother still works part time. You can have the siblings, in-laws, parents and other family helping, but not live under the same roof. A lot of young women, including myself, don't want to stop working completely because they don't want to be 100% dependant on the husband for money because they have seen the consequences of that to their mothers and others around them. 

[GurjantGnostic]

5 hours ago, Kaurr said:

4 kids is the plan. 

A lot of young women don't want to live with their in laws, including myself, because they have seen what has happen to their mothers. I know so many immigrant Punjabi women, including some people from my family, that if they had not settled abroad away from their in laws, then they would not have survived because of how messed up and controlling the families are. It is possible to have 4 kids without living with the in laws and the mother still working part time. I have a southern European friend with 4 siblings in total, with a few that are below the age of 12, and the mother still works part time. You can have the siblings, in-laws, parents and other family helping, but not live under the same roof. A lot of young women, including myself, don't want to stop working completely because they don't want to be 100% dependant on the husband for money because they have seen the consequences of that to their mothers and others around them. 

True. But your kids in that situation are going to be in schools and other places where a lot of this life crippling abuse takes place. 

That's the trade they've forced upon us. Both work, and have just enough money, but your kids belong to us.

I hear you on the money thing. In my mind I assume men are like me and turn everything over to the family or at least spend it wisely only on the family, putting themself last. 

The more extended and older a family group is the more all the younger people can work. 

Here's another concept. Don't want to try this with your family?

Get a Bunga going and have some one else's mother live with you. 

For me personally the historic and present extent of the types of abuses that we've all been enduring while being plugged into this system makes me want to put all my energy in a different direction. 

[Kaurr]

1 hour ago, GurjantGnostic said:

True. But your kids in that situation are going to be in schools and other places where a lot of this life crippling abuse takes place. 

That's the trade they've forced upon us. Both work, and have just enough money, but your kids belong to us.

I hear you on the money thing. In my mind I assume men are like me and turn everything over to the family or at least spend it wisely only on the family, putting themself last. 

The more extended and older a family group is the more all the younger people can work. 

Here's another concept. Don't want to try this with your family?

Get a Bunga going and have some one else's mother live with you. 

For me personally the historic and present extent of the types of abuses that we've all been enduring while being plugged into this system makes me want to put all my energy in a different direction. 

When I do have kids, which will be in like 15 years, I'm not going to work full time, I feel it's better to take time off work when they're really young and then work part time a few days a week until they're all at least 10-11. The husband can take an extra day off as well if that works. Then make sure to have as much time for them.

Men often do turn over everything to the family, and they often do place themselves last with money, but they abuse the power of them being the providers, and often they can do what ever the f they want around the house, say whatever they want, treat their wife however they want and then the wife can't do or say anything back because she has nothing,because he is the provider and because without him she can't go anywhere. Really messes the kids up, and often the son ends up thinking he can be like that when he's married, so you have the daughter basically have to make sure that the son ends up respecting women and being a decent human. 

In the future, I don't want to live under a roof with anyone else's mother. I have seen several families where you have one or both parents still working part time without any in-laws and still raising the kids well. I would love for parents and in-laws to help, they can live in the same neighbourhood or around us, but just not live under the same roof in the same house. 

[GurjantGnostic]

1 hour ago, Kaurr said:

When I do have kids, which will be in like 15 years, I'm not going to work full time, I feel it's better to take time off work when they're really young and then work part time a few days a week until they're all at least 10-11. The husband can take an extra day off as well if that works. Then make sure to have as much time for them.

Men often do turn over everything to the family, and they often do place themselves last with money, but they abuse the power of them being the providers, and often they can do what ever the f they want around the house, say whatever they want, treat their wife however they want and then the wife can't do or say anything back because she has nothing,because he is the provider and because without him she can't go anywhere. Really messes the kids up, and often the son ends up thinking he can be like that when he's married, so you have the daughter basically have to make sure that the son ends up respecting women and being a decent human. 

In the future, I don't want to live under a roof with anyone else's mother. I have seen several families where you have one or both parents still working part time without any in-laws and still raising the kids well. I would love for parents and in-laws to help, they can live in the same neighbourhood or around us, but just not live under the same roof in the same house. 

Think that middle paragraph goes both ways, I mean while a man shouldn't, just because he worked, be able to come home and act however he wants, also it doesn't mean when he comes home after he works, he should be treated just however either. And ultimately as long as everyone's working in some way towards the family good, and respecting each other, that works,  it's just a matter of what culture or educational system you want your kids to be brought up in.