Why have Punjabi songs become so Arabized?

[5aaban]

1 minute ago, dallysingh101 said:

I didn't even know we had Panjabis raised up over there!

I just assumed there may be some there too but most are immigrants I think. 

[Guest guest]

On 1/31/2022 at 7:54 AM, dallysingh101 said:

I didn't even know we had Panjabis raised up over there!

theres that millionaire Singh who runs those sweatshop hotels for those exploited labourers from india, blood money.  he's so 'kind' that he pays the bails when one of his slaves, sorry. 'tenants' kill another one.

and where aren't they punjabis these days?  seems like they want to live anyplace except punjab.  

 

[Guest guest]

Deleted - History of Troll posts with usage of VPN.

 

[Premi5]

On 1/31/2022 at 7:54 AM, dallysingh101 said:

I didn't even know we had Panjabis raised up over there!

Defintely must be some, there are a lot of Paks there, and a lot of South Indians. There was a BBC three-part docu recently

On 1/31/2022 at 7:57 AM, 5aaban said:

I just assumed there may be some there too but most are immigrants I think. 

 

On 2/7/2022 at 7:22 PM, Guest guest said:

theres that millionaire Singh who runs those sweatshop hotels for those exploited labourers from india, blood money.  he's so 'kind' that he pays the bails when one of his slaves, sorry. 'tenants' kill another one.

and where aren't they punjabis these days?  seems like they want to live anyplace except punjab.  

 

Who ?

Not many prospects for many in Panjab

[dallysingh101]

16 hours ago, Premi5 said:

Not many prospects for many in Panjab

We keep going over this. 

How much are Panjabis over there doing to develop the economy and thus opportunities? 

 

[Jai Tegang!]

4 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

We keep going over this. 

How much are Panjabis over there doing to develop the economy and thus opportunities? 

 

There is great potential in Punjab for small business and small scale industry. Even in the pinds, the entrepreneurial minded have opened up small shops in the front portions of their homes, or have bought space at more bustling locations of the pind to open small shops. Small mechanics, kariana [general] stores, welding, electric, farm implements, cattle feed, dairy, fabrics/ tailors, sweets, just to name a few. I've seen people move up the social ladder working diligently and comfortably in their own pinds with dignity and actually surpass the more well-off landholders. And you know what, there is potential for more small business that people just don't want to tap into. 

One problem with the education system is that it doesn't align with the ground reality of the local economy. They don't motivate the students to be entrepreneurial and self reliant, to create businesses and build the economy from the ground up. They push through useless degrees that have little demand just to sustain their colleges. 

[dallysingh101]

6 minutes ago, Jai Tegang! said:

There is great potential in Punjab for small business and small scale industry. Even in the pinds, the entrepreneurial minded have opened up small shops in the front portions of their homes, or have bought space at more bustling locations of the pind to open small shops. Small mechanics, kariana [general] stores, welding, electric, farm implements, cattle feed, dairy, fabrics/ tailors, sweets. I've seen people move up the social ladder working diligently and comfortably in their own pinds with dignity and actually surpass the more well-off landholders. And you know what, there is potential for more small business that people just don't want to tap into.

My cousin (whose now in Canada) opened up an IT training centre in a big room in my nana's house (programming) and that was like 25 years ago. So yes, there is potential for those who seek it. 

Sadly, it seems like you're on your own there though.

We have politicians whose job it is to promote and develop the internal economy in developed countries. Doesn't Panjab, with all its potential have the same? 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/587374/DFID-Economic-Development-Strategy-2017.pdf

 

https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/economic-development-strategy-2018_1.pdf  

[Premi5]

 

16 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

We have politicians whose job it is to promote and develop the internal economy in developed countries. Doesn't Panjab, with all its potential have the same?

Found this from 2013

https://thi.ucsc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Vision-for-Economic-Development-in-Punjab.pdf

VISION FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN PUNJAB

Lakhwinder Singh*

Abstract

Punjab economy remained a symbol of economic prosperity and a role model of economic development among the Indian states for more than three decades since the ushering in of the green revolution. The dismal performance of Punjab economy during the period of economic reforms relegated the state‟s economy from a leading to a laggard one.

Punjab is now ranked at number seven among the major Indian states in terms of per capita income. Why has Punjab economy slipped to 7th position and turned from a leader to a laggard? This question is intriguing and demands answer from well wishers, policy makers, political leadership and the scholars working on Punjab economy.

Despite the recognition of the problem and attempts made so far, the reversal in the trend has not yet occurred. In this paper an attempt has been made to analyze the factors that are responsible for the slow progress of the Punjab economy. An alternative pathway in the light of this analysis has been outlined to rebuild and resurrect the economic development dynamism in Punjab state..............

 

 

Conclusions: Punjab economy has experienced relative retrogression of its economic status in the post-reform period contrary to acceleration of economic growth of the national economy as well as majority of the major states of the country.

The process of divergence of economic growth performance of Punjab state vis a vis of national 22 economy as well as of dynamic states has been examined with a view to identify the growth reducing sectors and constraints. The first decade of the post-reform economic growth pattern of Punjab economy clearly brings out that the dominant sectors of Punjab economy like agriculture, registered manufacturing, electricity, real estate, public administration and others services, which contributed 68.52 per cent of the net state domestic product at beginning of reform period, have experienced deceleration in economic growth.

The major constraints that have impinged upon the development process of the Punjab economy are structural rigidities, macroeconomic policies, human capital development, low investment-GSDP ratio, demand and supply factors and non economic factors such as social, political and an active international border. Keeping in view the grass root realities, alternative policy measures are suggested to rejuvenate the economy of Punjab.

The reforms related to governance pattern of both state and union government have been suggested with regard to the purview of both the stakeholders. To harness long term sustained and inclusive growth, an alternative structural transformation pattern of economic growth has been outlined.

The alternative policy options devised keeping in view the specificities of the economy of Punjab state, if implemented have a capacity to restructure and rebuild the economy of the state along with involving people as a partners of economic growth

[MisterrSingh]

Why have Punjabi songs become so Arabized?

It's quite straight-forward yet simultaneously covers a few over-lapping areas. Not in the mood for too many words so I'll bullet-point it:

• There's a certain quality of romanticism (in terms of linguistic style) to Islamic / Arabic-derived compositions. Singers with particular types of classical training view it as a superior form (lyrically and musically) in which to express themselves. 
• The Punjabi and very early Sikh leaning (affection) for Sufism and its significant proponents (Bulleh Shah, Farid, etc) is a very significant component of this gradual Arabisation of modern Punjabi culture and art. In an attempt to "go to the root" / uncover the purest and earliest representation of an art-form or certain cultural and artistic practices, some modern-day performers inevitably find themselves being drawn to the original rendition of whichever art-form they want to explore. Musically, if you're Punjabi, you will struggle to ignore the early Islamic impact on Punjabi music, poetry, and literature in general.
• This aspect is a little controversial but I'll state it anyway: it's not a secret that Guru Nanak Dev Ji held Sufism and certain of their ways with affection. It's this bit that is seemingly giving modern-day Sikh artistes the green-light to go all-in with delving into the Arabic aesthetic for commercial gain. Unfortunately this is a big problem for a "Monkey-See, Monkey-Do" community such as Sikhs, because it sends out a message to the masses that our non-religious culture is interchangeable with Islamic culture - or at its most extreme interpretation - replaceable by the "purest" aspect of an earlier iteration of it. This will inevitably lead (or maybe it's already happened) where the predatory and larger Muslim demographic in India will use this cultural "gateway" opened by Punjabi singers to chip away at our separateness to them. 
• The native Indian Sikh stupidity of leaning Islamic in an attempt to "hurt" the Hindu machine is ever-present in all half-cocked nonsense they dream up. This aspect of it also plays a part in this issue.

That's it in a nutshell.

[dallysingh101]

41 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

This aspect is a little controversial but I'll state it anyway: it's not a secret that Guru Nanak Dev Ji held Sufism and certain of their ways with affection. It's this bit that is seemingly giving modern-day Sikh artistes the green-light to go all-in with delving into the Arabic aesthetic for commercial gain. Unfortunately this is a big problem for a "Monkey-See, Monkey-Do" community such as Sikhs, because it sends out a message to the masses that our non-religious culture is interchangeable with Islamic culture - or at its most extreme interpretation - replaceable by the "purest" aspect of an earlier iteration of it. This will inevitably lead (or maybe it's already happened) where the predatory and larger Muslim demographic in India will use this cultural "gateway" opened by Punjabi singers to chip away at our separateness to them. 

They guy I know who has most contact and interactions with these so-called sufi types is author Roop Dhillon. This is what he had to say about them (FTR I don't agree with a lot of what he says - highlights are mine):

 

"This may explain it. The guys I know are more Sufi orientated which means they are of the same ilk as Santan Hindus and thus more in sync with Baba Nanak's Sikhi but not I guess the Khalsa. So then all I can say is the pro punjabi guys seem to be different. It is an interesting point for me that the pro punjabi ones are mainly hailing from within Pakistan and are also targeted as Indian spies or traitors by those that put Islam before national pride. Also that the ones we are talking about may specifically include those in the west who like Sikhs in the west bought the wounds of 47 with them and lets face it are the guys my generation fought in the clubs and pubs in the 80s and 90s because of the hate between our communities at the time. I think many of them further alienated themselves from Pakistan after 9/11 and its consequences and lacking any linguistic connection with the Punjab joined the international Islamic brotherhood in reaction to George Bush etc and now are more like the Arabs you describe.

As I said take them individually.. anyhow one thing I am in agreement with you all...whenever I ask them about why they don't critize terrorism or all this grooming, there is no response, yet they are vocal about west picking on them. I have noted the ones I know in Pakistan disassociate themselves with these British products."