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Did krishan use deceit in killing this warrior?


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2 minutes ago, shastarSingh said:

https://www.livemint.com/Sundayapp/lvfgnLAQlYonkkKObhBmVN/The-moral-imperatives-to-a-lie.html

Krishna, the eighth avatar of Vishnu, the supreme god, tells Yudhisthira this is a war that must be won. And that if a lie ought to be told to win it, then the lie must be told. In this instance, Krishna knows Drona’s only weakness is his son Ashwathama. So, he asks Yudhisthira to spread the word that Ashwathama is dead. But Yudhisthira has a problem with that. His morality and reputation do not permit him to lie. He despises it as dishonest.

But even as Yudhisthira is thinking through Krishna’s proposition and its implications, Bhima, one of the Pandava brothers, kills an elephant named Ashwathama and screams: “Ashwathama is dead". Word reaches Drona. The man thinks it is his son Bhima is talking of. Stunned, he refuses to believe the news until he hears it from Yudhisthira and summons him.

Krishna’s words still ringing in his ears, Yudhisthira goes over to his uncle’s camp.

“Is it true," Drona asks him, “that Ashwathama is dead?"

“Yes," Yudhisthira says. And then trails off inaudibly, “Ashwathama the elephant."

Technically, Yudhisthira did not lie. But Drona doesn’t catch the words, lays down his weapons and bows his head in grief. In that very instant, on Krishna’s instructions, Dhrishtadyumna, Yudhisthira’s brother-in-law, chops his head off.

Jai tegang veer

Do you think it was a fine battle tactic or was it deceit?

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5 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

https://www.livemint.com/Sundayapp/lvfgnLAQlYonkkKObhBmVN/The-moral-imperatives-to-a-lie.html

Krishna, the eighth avatar of Vishnu, the supreme god, tells Yudhisthira this is a war that must be won. And that if a lie ought to be told to win it, then the lie must be told. In this instance, Krishna knows Drona’s only weakness is his son Ashwathama. So, he asks Yudhisthira to spread the word that Ashwathama is dead. But Yudhisthira has a problem with that. His morality and reputation do not permit him to lie. He despises it as dishonest.

But even as Yudhisthira is thinking through Krishna’s proposition and its implications, Bhima, one of the Pandava brothers, kills an elephant named Ashwathama and screams: “Ashwathama is dead". Word reaches Drona. The man thinks it is his son Bhima is talking of. Stunned, he refuses to believe the news until he hears it from Yudhisthira and summons him.

Krishna’s words still ringing in his ears, Yudhisthira goes over to his uncle’s camp.

“Is it true," Drona asks him, “that Ashwathama is dead?"

“Yes," Yudhisthira says. And then trails off inaudibly, “Ashwathama the elephant."

Technically, Yudhisthira did not lie. But Drona doesn’t catch the words, lays down his weapons and bows his head in grief. In that very instant, on Krishna’s instructions, Dhrishtadyumna, Yudhisthira’s brother-in-law, chops his head off.

 

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8 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

While doing face to face battle with the enemy, should a brave warrior speak a lie to distract the enemy?

I agree in life , sometimes a person has to lie for the larger good to happen but lying during a face to face battle duel?????

I think we should speak Truth so consistently that in the rarest of cases, like if asked "where are you hiding the jews?", and you make an exception in that instance, that it will have to be accepted as truth. 

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8 hours ago, Jai Tegang! said:

Sun Tzu's Art of War says warfare is based on deception. Study any war. Look at guerilla warfare. Kharku Singhs taking out targets. Life is messy. War is messier.

In a way it is. It's really as much about appearances though, Sun Tzu specifically, and even using truths so absurd they appear to be bluffs. 

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8 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

While doing face to face battle with the enemy, should a brave warrior speak a lie to distract the enemy?

I agree in life , sometimes a person has to lie for the larger good to happen but lying during a face to face battle duel?????

It seems our esteemed Shaheeds like Baba Deep Singh Ji, did not see fit to use that tactic themself. 

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Tangentially related. I've learned doing things like Aikido also, that a discipline is to empower you, unlimit you, enemies will try and paint you into a box, hold you to your values, but they have to respect your full potential to do anything. Most people for example insist we don't strike, which in some cases maybe you wouldn't, but in actuality we have two kuden, one every throw is a strike and every strike is a throw, and two, ninety percent of self defense application is Atemi, striking. 

Your values you must practice internally, and according to your Rehit as appropriate. 

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20 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

While doing face to face battle with the enemy, should a brave warrior speak a lie to distract the enemy?

I agree in life , sometimes a person has to lie for the larger good to happen but lying during a face to face battle duel?????

I think we have to read it in context as Jai Tegang has. 

Firstly it's an adaptation of an existing narrative, secondly, if an enemy is decimating your forces - mafia style hits like this might be a wise decision? 

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10 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

I think we have to read it in context as Jai Tegang has. 

Firstly it's an adaptation of an existing narrative, secondly, if an enemy is decimating your forces - mafia style hits like this might be a wise decision? 

Hari Chand was doing great damage to Guru Gobind Singh ji's army.

But Guru Sahib gave him 3 vaars.

3rd vaar hit Guru Sahib in kamarkassa.

Then Guru Sahib spoke "jabai baann lagiyo tabai ros jagiyo'

Then Guru Sahib killed hari Chand with just 1 shot from teer kamaan.

I feel krishan lied and used deceit.

He did the same to kill dronacharya.

What's your view on that?

 

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51 minutes ago, shastarSingh said:

Hari Chand was doing great damage to Guru Gobind Singh ji's army.

But Guru Sahib gave him 3 vaars.

3rd vaar hit Guru Sahib in kamarkassa.

Then Guru Sahib spoke "jabai baann lagiyo tabai ros jagiyo'

Then Guru Sahib killed hari Chand with just 1 shot from teer kamaan.

I feel krishan lied and used deceit.

He did the same to kill dronacharya.

What's your view on that?

 

There are (arguably) slightly similar precedents in Sikh ithihaas perhaps? When Sukha Singh had a duel with a pathaan, they both fought until they were both unconscious, but Sukha Singh woke up before the pathaan and quickly pounced on him (while he couldn't defend himself) and disembowelled him.  

Also, when Massa Ranghar was slain, Mehtab Singh tricked him into looking into a sack a sack of stones (that were supposed to be collected tax revenue), and beheaded him from behind him. 

As for your question, I don't know how much of an ethical role model Krishan is supposed to be for Sikhs? His actions with multiple gopis isn't something our Gurus would promote. That being said, sneakily decapitating an enemy that's decimating your army doesn't seem like a bad idea to me?   That's just me though. War is supposedly 90% about deception. 

 

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1 minute ago, dallysingh101 said:

There are (arguably) slightly similar precedents in Sikh ithihaas perhaps? When Sukha Singh had a duel with a pathaan, they both fought until they were both unconscious, but Sukha Singh woke up before the pathaan and quickly pounced on him (while he couldn't defend himself) and disembowelled him.  

Also, when Massa Ranghar was slain, Mehtab Singh tricked him into looking into a sack a sack of stones (that were supposed to be collected tax revenue), and beheaded him from behind him. 

As for your question, I don't know how much of an ethical role model Krishan is supposed to be for Sikhs? His actions with multiple gopis isn't something our Gurus would promote. That being said, sneakily decapitating an enemy that's decimating your army doesn't seem like a bad idea to me?   That's just me though. War is supposedly 90% about deception. 

 

Same things happen when big cats fight. The one with the quicker recovery time wins. Don't skip cardio. 

Massa Ranggar was a hit. No rules to walking into a dudes temporary place of residence and leaving with his head. 

Krishnas move is funny to me but not my personal style. 

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