Is Punjabi 5500 years old?

[Suchi]

17 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

Brahui is a Dravidian language spoken in Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahui_language

The latest evidence claims otherwise. Better wait until there's a consensus on this, if ever! 

But this looks compelling to me. 

https://indiafacts.org/aryan-invasion-myth-21st-century-science-debunks-19th-century-indology/

 

[shastarSingh]

https://www.dawn.com/2012/10/21/origin-of-urdu-in-dravidian-and-fareedkotis-theory/

However, a new shade was added to this linguistic sketch when in the latter half of the 20th century some linguists opined that Urdu was not an Aryan but a Dravidian language. Among them was Ain-ul-Haq Fareedkoti, who pursued this theory with detailed research. He began writing on issues concerning linguistics, languages of the Indo-Pak subcontinent and Urdu’s origin. He contributed his papers on linguistic issues to Urdu Nama, a magazine launched by the Urdu Dictionary Board and edited by the board’s then secretary Shan-ul-Haq Haqqi.

Ain-ul-Haq Fareedkoti’s real name was Fazl Elahi. According to official records, he was born on September 17, 1919, in Fareedkot, East Punjab. In his early literary career, he tried his hand at poetry and wrote under the penname of Sho’la Fareedkoti. Having joined the Royal Indian Army in 1942, he opted for Pakistan after independence and in 1974 retired from Pakistan Army Education Corps.

Fareedkoti Sahib wrote in Urdu, English and Punjabi on a variety of subjects but later devoted himself for the study of history and linguistics.

His papers on linguistics and the origin of Urdu were collected in book form and published under the title Urdu Zaban ki Qadeem Taareekh (Lahore, 1972). In English, he wrote Pre-Aryan Origin of Pakistani Languages (Lahore, 1992).

The theory that Urdu was an Aryan language was challenged by Fareedkoti Sahib. He, in his Urdu and English writings, surmised that contrary to the popular theory, Urdu did not have its roots in Sanskrit. In fact, his thesis is that not only Urdu but many sub-continental languages including Punjabi and Sindhi are Dravidian languages with influences from Manda and Indo-Chinese family of languages. To support his claim, Fareedkoti Sahib amassed a huge collection of data concerning the ancient languages, history, linguistics and their vocabularies. With a deep study of history and an interest in the ancient seals of Harappa and their scripts, he kept on looking for the roots of 

modern languages as he researched on ancient ones.

He finally arrived at the conclusion that languages spoken in the Indus valley some 5,000 years ago could not have vanished in thin air without leaving any trace behind and the vestiges those ancient languages could be traced in the present-day languages of Pakistan. He believed, as he wrote in his book Pre-Aryan origin of Pakistani languages, that the language “spoken in the streets of Harappa in the pre-Aryan times could not in any way be an Aryan language. It can also be safely concluded that ‘Harappan’ language might have been related to any primitive non-Aryan linguistic group. Naturally, the Dravidian and the Manda languages remained as the main contenders in this respect”.

Fareedkoti Sahib further writes that though Urdu, Hindi, Punjabi and Sindhi do not have enough Dravidian and Manda elements in their vocabularies, their grammatical structures totally differ from Sanskrit, or for that matter, any other Aryan language. In his opinion, grammatically these languages have close affinities with Dravidian languages and hence, clearly defy the “long-standing claims of western scholars” that emphasise Aryan origins.

[dallysingh101]

I think this is the problem with such 'research', it sways about to opposite poles. Previously we had aryan theory, then scythian theory, now we go back to Panjab's link to dravidian society. 

It's like whatever appeals at the time (usually connected to some link to some conqueror) gets promoted.  

I think a lot of it stems from many Panjabi's insecurity with their identity and wanting some exotic origins that differentiates them from the hated hindus?

 

Plus people talk about DNA research like they are experts in the field  and like things are concrete therein. This science is interpretable in different ways and can be used for devious agendas. It's not like scientists are immune to bias and supremacist thinking, and aren't capable of presenting things for particular agendas. 

[shastarSingh]

On 2/12/2022 at 5:32 PM, dallysingh101 said:

I think this is the problem with such 'research', it sways about to opposite poles. Previously we had aryan theory, then scythian theory, now we go back to Panjab's link to dravidian society. 

It's like whatever appeals at the time (usually connected to some link to some conqueror) gets promoted.  

I think a lot of it stems from many Panjabi's insecurity with their identity and wanting some exotic origins that differentiates them from the hated hindus?

 

Plus people talk about DNA research like they are experts in the field  and like things are concrete therein. This science is interpretable in different ways and can be used for devious agendas. It's not like scientists are immune to bias and supremacist thinking, and aren't capable of presenting things for particular agendas. 

Guru Nanak Dev ji is the greatest to have visited this earth. He chose Punjab area to take avtaar.

Guru Sahib recited Japji Sahib in Punjabi and also invented a script which is ideal for Punjabi language.

So there must be something special about Punjab area and Punjabi language.

Having said that, Sikh religion is not limited to Punjabi language only.

[dallysingh101]

2 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

Guru Nanak Dev ji is the greatest to have visited this earth. He chose Punjab area to take avtaar.

Guru Sahib recited Japji Sahib in Punjabi and also invented a script which is ideal for Punjabi language.

So there must be something special about Punjab area and Punjabi language.

Having said that, Sikh religion is not limited to Punjabi language only.

Years ago, I translated a bit of Prof. Sahib Singh's preface of his Jaap Sahib steek. He talks alot about language and what he believes to be it's relationship with Sikhi. Have a read of this and let us know what you think about it in relation to your above post please.

 

 

[shastarSingh]

25 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Years ago, I translated a bit of Prof. Sahib Singh's preface of his Jaap Sahib steek. He talks alot about language and what he believes to be it's relationship with Sikhi. Have a read of this and let us know what you think about it in relation to your above post please.

 

 

I read it.

All languages have beauty in them.

All languages can be written in Gurmukhi script.

But Gurmukhi script is ideal for Punjabi language.

Sounds of ਧ ਢ ਭ are sounds of Punjabi language only.

these sounds are not found in sanskrit or Arabic/Farsi.

[5aaban]

First Sikh in Pakistan gets PhD in Punjabi

LAHORE: Dr Kalyan Singh Kalyan, a Sikh student of Punjab University, obtained his PhD degree in Punjabi from Governor Punjab Chaudhry Muhammad Sarwar in the convocation. He is the first Sikh after the creation of Pakistan who did his PhD in Punjabi.

Dr Kalyan Singh has done PhD on the life and teachings of Baba Guru Nanak. Talking to the media, Dr Kalyan Singh said that my PhD degree had proved the decision of my ancestors to live in Pakistan a wise decision. He said that he had done his PhD covering various aspects of his religion and his spiritual leader Baba Guru Nanak under the supervision of a Muslim teacher, Dr Naveed Shahzad, which proved that there was complete religious freedom in Pakistan.

He said that doing PhD on Sikh religion under the supervision of a Muslim teacher was a great example of interfaith and inter-religious harmony in Pakistan. He said that he obtained all his education from BA to PhD from Punjab University and he was thankful for this great alma mater.

https://academiamag.com/first-sikh-in-pakistan-gets-phd-in-punjabi/

[dallysingh101]

41 minutes ago, 5aaban said:

He said that he had done his PhD covering various aspects of his religion and his spiritual leader Baba Guru Nanak under the supervision of a Muslim teacher, Dr Naveed Shahzad, which proved that there was complete religious freedom in Pakistan.

[shastarSingh]

On 2/7/2022 at 8:36 PM, proudkaur21 said:

Punjab has a very old history. What we are taught in school about hindu and Hinduism is mostly lies. Punjab was part of the indus civilization and today we are in clash with the ganges civilization. We are taught a history that doesnt even belong to us. Punjab has a very old history starting from ancient persia. The punjabi language is very old and has evolved since then. The people of the ganges hate the indus civilization and are hell bent on destroying the punjabi language in both east and west punjab. In their hatred of sikhs these west punjabi adopted a language called urdu which is the language of the ganges plain from which hindi was made for the hindus.Brainwashed people giving up their language and culture.

I totally agree.

Bammann is greatest liar in this creation of God.

Jaspal Singh mayell book is EXCELLENT and must read.

Harrappa was a GREAT civilization.

[shastarSingh]

Plz read about character of harrappa people.