Ukraine-Russia crisis

[Ranjeet01]

One of the tricky dilemmas in this conflict is that Russia sees NATO as a threat because they do not want bordering countries having missiles pointing at them.

There are 3 Baltic countries (Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia ) that border Russia and are part of NATO. 

That is why they prefer to have Ukraine neutral because it will act as a buffer state. On the western borders of Ukraine you have Poland, Romania, Slovakia etc who are all NATO members. 

So I can see this from Russia's point of view.

However, from Ukraine's point of view, they are an independent sovereign country and should be free to move their country. If they feel that they want to join the EU or NATO, they should be free to do so.

But this is where US hypocrisy comes in. In 1823, the US have had something called the Monroe Doctrine where they vowed that no foreign power should have presence in the Western hemisphere other than themselves. 

When.Cuba became communist in 1958 under Fidel Castro they became chummy with Soviet Union.

In 1962, Soviet Union planted some missiles in Cuba. Cuba is like 90 miles away from Florida and US found this very threatening.  This is called the Cuba Missile Crisis. There was almost WW3 then.

Now if Russia or China planted missiles in Canada or Mexico, would the US like it? They won't,  so how would they expect Russia to react?

This is something we as Sikhs may need to ponder if we ever get our own homeland. If we became chummy with China and they wanted a base with missiles pointing at India for example.

[GurjantGnostic]

 

 

[GurjantGnostic]

3 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

One of the tricky dilemmas in this conflict is that Russia sees NATO as a threat because they do not want bordering countries having missiles pointing at them.

There are 3 Baltic countries (Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia ) that border Russia and are part of NATO. 

That is why they prefer to have Ukraine neutral because it will act as a buffer state. On the western borders of Ukraine you have Poland, Romania, Slovakia etc who are all NATO members. 

So I can see this from Russia's point of view.

However, from Ukraine's point of view, they are an independent sovereign country and should be free to move their country. If they feel that they want to join the EU or NATO, they should be free to do so.

But this is where US hypocrisy comes in. In 1823, the US have had something called the Monroe Doctrine where they vowed that no foreign power should have presence in the Western hemisphere other than themselves. 

When.Cuba became communist in 1958 under Fidel Castro they became chummy with Soviet Union.

In 1962, Soviet Union planted some missiles in Cuba. Cuba is like 90 miles away from Florida and US found this very threatening.  This is called the Cuba Missile Crisis. There was almost WW3 then.

Now if Russia or China planted missiles in Canada or Mexico, would the US like it? They won't,  so how would they expect Russia to react?

This is something we as Sikhs may need to ponder if we ever get our own homeland. If we became chummy with China and they wanted a base with missiles pointing at India for example.

Yeah dude that's the narrative, but our missiles go from the next country over, the next country after that, the next, the next continent over, off their coast. Still don't blame russia for the bay of pigs 2.0 card, but the range of missiles makes it pretty silly now. 

[MisterrSingh]

50 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

That's one of the places they have the conservatives bent over, gate keeping. They use that side of their coin to be extremeley jealous of and against any form of social program or infrastructure program or public works project, they get them all foaming at the mouth about free enterprise, but then we have a hugely controlled economic system, complete with huge bailouts, subsidies and no taxes for giant corporations, and the military industrial complex, we pay socialist taxes, it all goes to the rich and the military industrial complex.

100%. The Right (more often than not the Christian Right) struggle to see their complicity in the entire mess. I can't believe these same folks are now beginning to crave the return of Donald Trump. How can they not see they're being played?

[Ranjeet01]

6 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Yeah dude that's the narrative, but our missiles go from the next country over, the next country after that, the next, the next continent over, off their coast. Still don't blame russia for the bay of pigs 2.0 card, but the range of missiles makes it pretty silly now. 

Yes, ICBM. Inter Continental Ballistic Missile. 

But I guess you would not want short range missiles either.

Not a miltary man but I guess it would be like someone holding a gun to your head and someone trying to shoot from a distance. 

 

[GurjantGnostic]

Just now, MisterrSingh said:

100%. The Right (more often than not the Christian Right) struggle to see their complicity in the entire mess. I can't believe these same folks are now beginning to crave the return of Donald Trump. How can they not see they're being played?

My God bro...I recently touched base with some relatives....all still talking about the fact that trump had the election stolen....bruh

[GurjantGnostic]

Just now, Ranjeet01 said:

Yes, ICBM. Inter Continental Ballistic Missile. 

But I guess you would not want short range missiles either.

Not a miltary man but I guess it would be like someone holding a gun to your head and someone trying to shoot from a distance. 

 

Putin just needs excuses to do what he wants. Some of those might be valid. Others not. End result Putin does what he does. 

[dallysingh101]

2 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

If some of the military analysis is correct, the Russians are in a position that it will encircle 50-60 thousand Ukrainian troops. If these troops surrender, it would effectively be game over for the Ukrainians.

If these ukrainains decide to do an guerrilla insurgency after capitulating, that could bog Russian down, plus we know umpteen other nations will be helping the ukes with supplies and intel etc.    

That being said, Russia did manage to bring Chechnya 'back into the fold'. 

[Ranjeet01]

12 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Putin just needs excuses to do what he wants. Some of those might be valid. Others not. End result Putin does what he does. 

Putin sees himself as a Tsar. 

[dallysingh101]

1 hour ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Dude they don't want a dime going to people. 

That's one of the places they have the conservatives bent over, gate keeping. They use that side of their coin to be extremeley jealous of and against any form of social program or infrastructure program or public works project, they get them all foaming at the mouth about free enterprise, but then we have a hugely controlled economic system, complete with huge bailouts, subsidies and no taxes for giant corporations, and the military industrial complex, we pay socialist taxes, it all goes to the rich and the military industrial complex. Any time they need more money they just print it and make us poorer. Meanwhile conservatives have nothing to say about the rape of the nation financially, while we pay socialist taxes to gestalt business entities, but have no healthcare or social programs. Failing everything. 

I think race plays a big part in this, I know they have even created a massive industrial complex with prisons out there,  but why do you think rednecks aren't more miffed about how their government acts? As many of them seem dirt poor too?