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Racism - callout as it is


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17 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

1. Manas Ki Jaat crew on suicide watch. ?

2. Their black "allies" confirmed more Sikh buddhe need their heads kicked in. Apne of a particular bent will probably justify it as white supremacists in black-face trying to defame them.

3. Anything but accept the truth that blacks despise beardy-weirdy turbanators. 

 

1. Lol Paji how did you conclude all that from a few fake twitter handles?

2. Let's assume for a second that they were genuine handles, how does a couple of handles become reflective of a 50million strong community? Do KPS Gill and General Brar represent who we are as Sikhs if they support and look up to Indira Gandhi?

3. I don't understand what is so difficult about stating "a *minority* of blacks" rather than just applying such a blanket to 50million people?

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18 hours ago, Deepthinking22 said:

1. No one including me are not saying 'most'. 

2. What we are highlighting is that there is a problem from a subsection of these communities that needs to be talked about without getting shamed for it. 

1. Good as that was a central point the whole argument as I see it

2. Neither am I saying that Sikhs should not be aware of genuine racially motivated attacks on the part of a small minority of African Americans.

I condemn racism whoever the perpetrator may be in every single instance.

All I am saying is that I don't for one second consider African Americans to be the most racist qaum on Earth and that Parchaar and moral support for African Diaspora communities should increase rather than decrease on account of the points you are making.

I am pretty confident that the overwhelming majority of mixed race folks are non-racist because they in 2022 have an even stronger stake in advocating for what Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj propagated - "kul nash" - the eradication of erstwhile stratified and divided identities like the man-made concept of "race".

If a small minority are aggressively racist then that is more likely to be a feeling of inadequacy and proving group loyalty. By the way the mixed race kid in the Altab Ali murder was not the killer as I understand it (he was merely with white "friends" of his at the wrong place and at the wrong time). Of course 50 years ago in the 1970's I do agree that many mixed race folks did indeed face a lot of pressure to act more white than white.

Somali Muslims have always despised West Indians as "slaves" (on account of Arab Muslims referring to Somali's as their slaves) so it is understandable that West Indians will not buckle under the Somali's.

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16 hours ago, Deepthinking22 said:

Well we are not going to highlight it's a small issue that needs to be swept under the rug. 

Nobody has ever said that you don't need to do that in a democratic society. All I understand is being said is let the Police catch the perpetrators and the justice system heavily punish them and that against the backdrop of Patrick Lyoya's killing by the Police (video below) we should be cautious about letting certain elements hijack these unfortunate despicable attacks to setback wider community relations and Parchaar of Sikhi.

What you say about Punjabis being as racist is a typical damaging response that serves no purpose in addressing what is being highlighted. 

How can a minority of Punjabi's who are racist even complain about racism when they participate in it themselves?

Indian racism to blacks is a thing. 

Good that you acknowledge that and that Sikhs should never be part of Indian and Pakistani racism against black folks.

I told you, official government stats show blacks are the second of racial violence in both the US in both the US.

Hardly surprising in the US given that they were the second biggest community in the States until relatively recently.

Again, what on Earth has highlighting that African Americans are the biggest victims of racial attacks in the US got to do with?

My point was that since African Americans are the biggest victims of racial attacks in the US and that white Trump supporters are responsible for most of the attacks against East Asians why are two incidents that the Police have not established the motivation behind being used to seemingly present that African Americans are the main problem when it comes to Donald Trump and his supporters (who are overwhelmingly white) attacks upon east Asians?

You are fobbing off murders of elderly Chinese men and women and countless beatings as a couple of slaps?

How can I be fobbing off these murders of elderly Chinese folks by mostly white attackers when I wholeheartedly condemn Trump supporters for their violence against East Asians? Where did you jump to that extrapolation from?

every single community and race has it's racists.  Whites, Asians, Blacks and Browns.  No one including Blacks are an exception!

I have never stated to the contrary 

When you tell a whole group of people that they can't be racist 

Where exactly have I ever said that?

I would say our job as Sikhs is to highlight and confront any injustice even when and where there is an uncomfortable truth.  

I 100% agree with that there are no two ways about it

May be an image of one or more people, beard, turban and text that says "THE BLACK KHCOLLEC VE"

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16 hours ago, Deepthinking22 said:

SinghPunjabSingh, I said I agreed with your points 1,2,3 and 4. 

I agree with some of it but not totally. 

I am aware of who Thomas Sowell is and many in the African American community would consider him their equivalent of General Brar.

I am aware that there is an underclass of people in America - who much like we see in Punjab and BC - are on drugs, think crime, promiscuity and alcohol and low academic achievement are cool and that brandishing a gun for Facebook likes or killing others in their community gives them street cred.

However, the fact is that the CIA and RAW have a heavy hand on infiltrating these damaging sub-cultures into both communities in order to destroy them from within.

It goes without saying that it is incumbent upon Sikhs and African Americans to weed out these miscreants as they are inflicting a mini-Genocide on their own communities from within (on behalf of their puppet masters).

May be an image of one or more people, beard, turban and text that says "XAVIER THE BLACK SIKH COLLECTIVE w"

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11 hours ago, Jassu said:

1. I'm embarrassed that this is the state of the Sikh quom. 

2. This is why we're failing btw.

I'm embarassed that first you told us fictional tales of some perfect millionaire white guy sitting in his folks basement in Europe in front of his computer.

Then you moved on to promoting disunity among Sikhs on the basis of Sikhs ancestry when all other normal Sikhs would promote Unity.

Now you scrape the barrel denigrating kaaleh just because you think Gurjant Singh is African American (when in fact he is not - but unlike you tries to combat and confront real racism in America wherever he sees it).

Your generalisations against kaaleh (whilst pretending to be Sikh) are why we failing in Parchaar terms.

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10 hours ago, Jai Tegang! said:

It's good they are upfront about how they feel about us since our people tend to be a bit slow in picking up subtle messages. The message is clear from their side: don’t hitch your wagon for a free “victim ride”. Give proportionate respect back to black orgs and individuals that stand by us, but none of this sikh coalition free pass.

If racists think we have sign on our forehead reading “take-a-swing-at-the-raghead”, it’s only because we allow it. This problem gets solved by sending out clear and blunt messages through all channels.

Are a few unverified Twitter handles all we need to write off Parchaar to a 50million strong community? So if the Punjab kissan and mazdoor organisations didn't buy Rihanna's records and she didn't really benefit much from sales in Punjab she shouldn't have bothered raise an issue relating to justice? 

Simple question: do Sikhs in Canada have any kind of moral obligations to stand with indigenous native folks for the lands upon which Sikhs now live assuming they (the natives) don't stand with us on every single issue (mainly because they have enough issues of their own to deal with like the appropriation of all their land and wealth and the suicides of their teenagers)?

Nobody has ever said that Sikhs should not be tyaar bar tyaar at all times and that we should not know how to defend ourselves!

3 hours ago, superkaur said:

1. why are majority of blacks so quite and not vocal when Sikhs and asians in general are harmed and victimised by violent black racists in their communities based in the west.

2. Where are the black Sikh converts and why are they not coming to defense of their fellow brothers and sisters in faith?

1. The vast overwhelmingly majority of African Americans would condemn the Richmond Hill attacks. A lot of kaaleh don't have it easy in the States. 99.9% of people in America are non-Sikhs and most African Americans have no clue who Sikhs are as there has been no parchaar done to them. Most Americans assume that Sikhs are from the same religion as Osama bin Laden. If our community was to do that starting now (and as Gurjant Singh is actively doing) then millions would turn away from the Slavemaster religions and become sehajdhari and dreadlocked Sikhs over the next decades. With African Americans as allies and fellow Sikhs the Sikh Panth would grow in leaps in bounds not just in America but also in Africa where the population will be 4 billion by the end of the century.

2. How do you know they are not? Maybe they are busy doing Parchaar which is more than can be said of the SGPC or a lot of the people writing off a 50 million strong community from Parchaar on account of incidents primarily perpetrated by gangbangers and crackheads (ignoring the fact that these types of criminals are responsible for literally thousands of black on black homicide statistics which the deep-state neo-cons and the NRA help support and perpetuate).

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7 hours ago, superkaur said:

Question I would ask is why are majority of blacks so quite and not vocal when Sikhs and asians in general are harmed and victimsed by violent black racists in their communities based in the west. Where are the black Sikh converts and why are they not coming to defense of their fellow brothers and sisters in faith?

Converts to non-Abrahamic religions tend to feel they're bringing something hitherto lacking to their new belief system just by their very existence. White converts are especially egregious in this attitude. They adopt the visual vestments, the language, etc, but they set up their parallel spheres to the "brown" mainstream of the religion. If that's not white privilege, I don't know what is. ?

You don't get that 5hit with converts to something like Islam, which by its nature ensures conformity (at least in the early days). The new addition has to "prove" themselves to the mass mainstream. They don't get the luxury of adopting the belief system AND looking down their nose at the pre-existing brown adherents.

I don't know enough about black converts to Sikhi to comment whether they behave in the same manner due to their Western upbringing, or whether they have a little more desire to mix with the rest of us.

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5 hours ago, SinghPunjabSingh said:

1. Lol Paji how did you conclude all that from a few fake twitter handles?

2. Let's assume for a second that they were genuine handles, how does a couple of handles become reflective of a 50million strong community? Do KPS Gill and General Brar represent who we are as Sikhs if they support and look up to Indira Gandhi?

3. I don't understand what is so difficult about stating "a *minority* of blacks" rather than just applying such a blanket to 50million people?

I'm not responding to a liar who chooses to ignore my very carefully selected words and opinions in order to push through his propaganda diatribes. 

Anyone can go back to my earlier posts in this thread and see the distinctions I've made between various groups. 

Don't put lies in my f*****g mouth.

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9 hours ago, SinghPunjabSingh said:

1. Good as that was a central point the whole argument as I see it

No that was not the central point, but yes as you stated, as you see it.  You are hypersensitive to any criticism of said community and take it as an attack. 

9 hours ago, SinghPunjabSingh said:

All I am saying is that I don't for one second consider African Americans to be the most racist qaum on Earth and that Parchaar and moral support for African Diaspora communities should increase rather than decrease on account of the points you are making.

How on Earth are you inferring I am suggesting moral support for African Diasporas should decrease on account of the points being made???  Again, you are taking it as an attack.  

9 hours ago, SinghPunjabSingh said:

I am pretty confident that the overwhelming majority of mixed race folks are non-racist because they in 2022 have an even stronger stake in advocating for what Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj propagated - "kul nash" - the eradication of erstwhile stratified and divided identities like the man-made concept of "race".

If a small minority are aggressively racist then that is more likely to be a feeling of inadequacy and proving group loyalty. By the way the mixed race kid in the Altab Ali murder was not the killer as I understand it (he was merely with white "friends" of his at the wrong place and at the wrong time). Of course 50 years ago in the 1970's I do agree that many mixed race folks did indeed face a lot of pressure to act more white than white.

Somali Muslims have always despised West Indians as "slaves" (on account of Arab Muslims referring to Somali's as their slaves) so it is understandable that West Indians will not buckle under the Somali's.

 

Yes the majority of them probably are not racist but it doesn't mean there is not a problem.  And yes Altab Ali's murderer was mixed race this is a fact stop trying to change history!

By saying Somali muslims despise West Indians as slaves are you not doing exactly what you are accusing people on this forum as doing?  Why are you not saying 'some' Somali Muslims?

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''Nobody has ever said that you don't need to do that in a democratic society. All I understand is being said is let the Police catch the perpetrators and the justice system heavily punish them and that against the backdrop of Patrick Lyoya's killing by the Police (video below) we should be cautious about letting certain elements hijack these unfortunate despicable attacks to setback wider community relations and Parchaar of Sikhi.''

If that happens, it happens. There is nothing we can do about it apart from confront it when and if it happens (the certain elements hijacking thing).  It in no way means we should keep quiet about an increasingly dangerous mindset and behaviour from the said community. 

'How can a minority of Punjabi's who are racist even complain about racism when they participate in it themselves?'

What an absolutely ridiculous response!  I agree, if a racist experiences racism then there is not much they can complain about lol.  But are you saying innocent Punjabis who are racially abused have no right to complain because  a minority of Punajbis who are not even known to them exhibit racist beliefs?  Get the hell out of here!  Unless you are implying 'ALL' Punjabis are racist? You do know your comment can be totally flipped the other way right and replace Punjabis with Blacks right?  But it is such a stupid thing to say in the context of what we are talking about that I or no logical non biased person would do it. 

Hardly surprising in the US given that they were the second biggest community in the States until relatively recently.

So now you are admitting it and that it's not limited to a 'couple of crackheads with mental issues'?  Also, convenient how you didn't give an excuse as to why they are also the largest perpetrators of racial violence in the UK where South Asians outnumber them. 

My point was that since African Americans are the biggest victims of racial attacks in the US and that white Trump supporters are responsible for most of the attacks against East Asians why are two incidents that the Police have not established the motivation behind being used to seemingly present that African Americans are the main problem when it comes to Donald Trump and his supporters (who are overwhelmingly white) attacks upon east Asians?

Attacks on East Asians and other ethnic minorities by Black racists has been going on well before Trump came on to the scene politically.  Go into East Asian neighbourhoods throughout the US and they will tell you this is not a new problem.  Yes, Covid has caused an upsurge in the violent racist attacks against them but it has been going on for decades and a 'disproportionate amount of the attackers' have been Black.  Again, you omit facts.  At least one of the Richmond Hill attacks has been established as a hate crime (the Black attackers racially abused the two Sikhs verbally while beating them). 

How can I be fobbing off these murders of elderly Chinese folks by mostly white attackers when I wholeheartedly condemn Trump supporters for their violence against East Asians? Where did you jump to that extrapolation from?

Because you made light of it by comparing it to a couple of slaps and saying there are bigger issues to be dealt with which ironically the bigger issue according to you being the people who are causing the hate, the hate they receive is more important in confronting than the hate they are dispensing.  If you look at the videos and the news reports, it is not mostly white attackers!  Even if it was (which it is not), Blacks are statistically disproportionately represented in these attacks.  We all know about White racism and it is always being fought, confronted and challenged, the point of this thread is to highlight there is Black racism too which keeps getting swept under the carpet. That is why it is being highlighted.  

 

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