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Guest SikhForLife

neo singh why do u follow him?

thats almost like following a hindu pandits.. (who may have achieved God themselves.. but who knows)

if he achieved God (like you and others claim) thru SGGS then why dont you follow SGGS

this is the main thing Nanak dev ji taught us.. follow the pure truth.. SGGS

not some baba..

we dont worship any of the 10 Gurus.. we worship the knowledge.. sGGs

(ps. not disrespecting baba ishar ji .. who knows if he really achieved God .... )

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singh jee,

he is just covering his head that does not mean he is wearing keski does that?
it doesn't. but like i said earlier, i can't tell from the pic. after some singh do keshee ishnaaan thats probably how he would look like
and also if you intend to follow akal takht sahib then why not follow their rehatnama when they are allowed jhatka??

this is another controversial points not yet resolved by akal takhat. here is some more info on that:

The controversy in the Khalsa Panth over being a vegetarian or non-vegetarian arose due to the difference in the interpretation of the word Kuthha - one of the four primary taboos or Cardinal Sins for the Sikhs. Before going into the depth of what "Kuthha" really means, it is imperative to consider the real importance of these taboos in Sikhism. It is an undisputed fact that any Sikh who commits any one of these four taboos becomes an apostate. That means he is no longer a Sikh, i.e., he is automatically dc-linked and ex-communicated from the Khalsa Brotherhood, even though he may be considered a Sikh by society. As a natural corollary, he loses the Grace of the Satguru without which no progress

can be made in achieving the Bliss of Naam-Simran. The four great taboos prescribed for the Sikhs are, thus, of fundamental importance.

Being of such fundamental importance, the four taboos cannot, obviously, be based upon any temporary contingency of the prevailing circumstances. They must have their own solid basis and foundation, and must be conducive to spiritual upliftment through Naam-Simran, which occupies the pivotal position in the whole edifice of Sikhism. Otherwise, they will lose their applicability in the changed circumstances, especially when their role in the spiritual progress is doubtful or even negative. It is explicit in Gurbani that the principles of Gurmat are unchangeable and of permanent standing:

Gurmat Mat Achal Hal Chalaey Na Sakey Koey. (pg. 548)

The Instruction of the Guru is Unshakable. None can change it.

So, according to the generally prevailing idea as advocated by many Sikh scholars, the main reason for imposing this taboo of not eating Halaal meat is not that it is sacrificial or even religious. Rather this taboo had been imposed primarily to liberate the Sikhs from mental slavery of the then rulers of the Muslim faith who had banned by law the slaying of animals by any method other than Halaal. If this interpretation is accepted, then the following points arise:

With the changed times now, when there is no longer such coercion from any quarter, there should be no need for continuing this taboo in the list of the four taboos because the reason for the imposition of this taboo no longer exists.

It also implies that the four taboos which, have been declared hy Satguru himself as basic and of fundamental importance, may not necessarily be conducive to spiritual enhancement of the soul through Naam-Simran; their objective being merely to create a spirit of moral, and, according to some, physical strength to face the unjust and tyrannic rule of the then rulers. Obviously, this cannot be the situation as the main and the only objective of th

e Satguru was and is to implant the Holy Naam firmly in the minds of the Sikhs through Holy Amrit (Khande-Ki-Pahul). One cannot imagine the All knowing Satguru imposing a taboo of such basic importance which has no relationship with, or which does not help his Sikhs in the achievement of the Spiritual Bliss.

If we accept this position of a taboo being imposed only to serve the conditions prevailing at a particular time, then we provide a pretext to the so-called Modern Sikhs who consider that the keeping of Keshas is no longer necessary in the changed times. They also contend that Kirpan is now of little significance in this atomic age. They openly assert that religion must change with the changing times. The spirit of Sikhism, according to them, lies only within the Sikhs and it has nothing to do with the outward appearance or baanaa. They further contend that the then prevailing circumstances made the necessity of keeping Sikhs unique and easily distinguishable. In the changed circumstances that necessity no longer exists. Thus, accepting the above background of the Kuthha will lead to total destruction of the edifice of Sikhism.

Moreover, how would we classify fish? Is it Halaal or Jhatka?

Meat-eating Sikh brethren advocate that the only touchstone to be used in deciding whether meat should be eaten or refrained from, is whether it creates trouble in the body and fills the mind with evil. If there is no such ill effect then there is no harm in eating it. In the support of this contention, they cite the following couplet from Gurbani:

Baba Hore Khanna Khushi Khuaar

Jit Khaadey Tan Peeriay, Man Meh Chaleh Vikaar. (pg. 196)

0 Baba! All other foods (except the Naam)

create trouble in the body and fill the mind with evil.

Evidently the foregoing couplet is a mis-quotation in this context because herein Guru Sahib is comparing all material foods with the Divine Food (i.e. Naam-Simran) and is decrying the former. The word HORE is very crucial in this couplet. It d

oes not mean ANY food but any OTHER food, i.e., any food other than NAAM. In the absence of the Divine Food (Naam), all material foods will sicken the body as well as the soul. The very idea of eating meat fills the mind with evil making it aggressive and a partner in taking the life of an innocent creature. For this very reason, almost all of the well-known spiritually enlightened Gursikhs of the past and present have been and are shunning meat and allied non-vegetarian foods. Such foods are not conducive to spiritual development and Naam-Simran and, therefore, the all-knowing Satguuu could not approve them.

In two Hukam Naamaas of Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib (Appendix C), there are clear cut instructions prohibiting the eating of meat, fish, etc. The actual words used are "Maas machhi de nerrey nahin jawnaa." When Guru Nanak in his sixth form prohibits Sikhs from eating flesh in such a strong language, how can he, in his tenth form, issue instructions absolutely contrary to and in negation of his own earlier instructions?

Mohsin Fani (1615-70), the well known historian and a contemporary of Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib, writes in his work DABISTAN-E-MAZAHIB as follows:

"Having prohibited his disciples to drink wine and eat pork, he (Nanak) himself abstained from eating flesh and ordered not to hurt any living being. After him this precept was neglected by his followers; but Arjun Mal, one of the substitutes of his Faith, renewed the prohibition to eat flesh and said: This has not been approved by Nanak."13

What clear cut evidence against eating flesh and drinking wine in Sikhism!

viii. Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh ii's "UPDESH" to Bhai Daya Singh ji which is mentioned in "SUDHARAM MARAG GRANTH", and also found written in some old handwritten volumes of Sri Guru Granth Sahib:

"One who does not:

Steal

Commit adultery

Slander anyone

Gamble

Eat meat or drink wine

will be liber

ated in this very life (i.e. Jeewan Mukt)".14

It is also asserted that bravery is connected with eating animal flesh. The assertion is baseless. In fact, bravery is not connected with brute body force. Real bravery comes out of the spirit of sacrifice for the Truth and arises from the state of mind. The very prevalent words Charhdi Kala among the Sikhs refer to the Charhdi Kala of the spirit. The Sikh history is full of such instances where Sikhs who were hungry for days together defeated the tyrant Mughal forces whose meat eating habits were legendary.

There is no difference m either taste or nutritive content of meat obtained through Jhatka or Halaal methods. Meat remains meat, whatever may be the method of slaying the animal. It is a mockery of the august and everlasting holy fundamental principles of Gurmat to attach such a fundamental importance to meat obtained from a particular method of slaying the animal, that its eating by a Sikh makes him an apostate, and that obtained from another method of slaying becomes fully acceptable. Either meat is allowed or is prohibited totally. There can be no mid-way. It is rather strange that many 'modern' and 'intellectual' Sikhs, who are often questioning the rationale of such edicts as keeping of Kirpan or Keshas and even the particular type of Kachhehra, generally do not question the rationale of Jhatka and Halaal distinction in respect of meat. Obviously, it is the generally preferred taste of the tongue that keeps them mum on this issue.

then why do i get this feeling in my local gurdwara where people try to somehow force you into beleive in it???

i think they care about u and the way they are trying to get this message across the others might seems rude or inapp

ropriate. i feel sad about ur situation and suggest that u don't stop going to gurdwara because of this. because if u don't go into sangat u r hurting urself. hopefully these issues will get resolve soon.

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Guest Akaal108

Read my post carefully.

I said i intend to follow baba ishar singh ji rara sahib and sggs. Because here is what i beleive and think. Obviously you wont agree with it

- SGGS(MEETING OF GUROO'S) Should be aim of every sikh

- And thats us( Moorakhs)

IN the middle there are ladder(sant/bhramgyani/mahapursh) who already acheived salvation.

In order to met with guroo if you have to find someone who already met guroo through sggs.

Veer you just slander an mahapursh by linking with the hindu pandits.

Its said in sggs .. possibly if you read sukhmani sahib .. if you do nindiya of saints ..thats the worst paap ever.

Since guroo's praised the saints and you dissed them.. indirectly you just dissed guroo's as well.

good on you. hope you get a medal for that

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singh jee,

In order to met with guroo if you have to find someone who already met guroo through sggs.

what do u mean by this. please elaborate more on this. i am interested in what ur views are about this.

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Guest SikhForLife
Baba Hore Khanna Khushi Khuaar

Jit Khaadey Tan Peeriay, Man Meh Chaleh Vikaar. (pg. 196)

0 Baba! All other foods (except the Naam)

create trouble in the body and fill the mind with evil.

veerji all food is equal !! ur right

i am a vegetarian myself.. but not because sikhi tells me to be.. but because its my personal choice.. i dont want to see chickens... goats.. killed (i am an animal lover)

now why is all food equal u ask?

simple: God is in everything... when we pick an apple out from the tree it gets hurt .. and we have killed it..

same thing for any other food.. or animal....

SGGS says.. eat less.. drink less.. and practice naam.. thats the key of achieving God!

not saying starve urself .. cuz u need to breathe to practice naam

just dont get caught in the pleasures of eating.. .. its a pleasure to eat that ice cream cake.. whose milk was "STOLEN" from the cow..

u get me?

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Guest Akaal108

Karam Singh veer ji,

thats an another contoversial point you brought about sangat.

Correct me if i m wrong sggs focused more on sadh-sangat (sadhu/sants sangat) than just sangat.

Please dont sowwie for me. As far i know they are not feeling sowwie. They are judgin someone that they shouldnt based on my isiolated beleifs. I dont force someone my beleifs in them. Because i have faith in my sant and guroo's sahiban that will help me in spirtual journey.

And about doin darshan of guroo sahiban sggs maharaj ji. I just go to nanaksar gurdwara near my house. do my namaskar there..

no worries veer i m not lost ; :D

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Guest SikhForLife
good on you. hope you get a medal for that
and now ur slandering me..

first of all i never slandered him

only way if its slandering is if i am slandering the hindu pandit.. i am not

Veer you just slander an mahapursh by linking with the hindu pandits.

so are u saying hindu pandits are "bad" i never said they were bad!.. i said they claim to be bramh gianis too..

i have respect for every being.. equally... whether baba.. sant.. bramh gyani

u assumed that i dont respect hindu pandits..

u assumed that by comparing him to a hindu pandit he is "degraded"

while the fact is there was NO degrading of anyone in that post

----------

I am also hard-core vegatarian .. why you post that up??

wasnt directed towards you.. just anyone who thinks its not ok to eat meat but they can drink as much milk as they want. or eat

as much vegetables

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Its said in sggs .. possibly if you read sukhmani sahib .. if you do nindiya of saints ..thats the worst paap ever.

Since guroo's praised the saints and you dissed them.. indirectly you just dissed guroo's as well.

good on you. hope you get a medal for that

N30, SikhForLife clearly said that he doesn't intend any disrespect towards Baba Ishar Singh Ji.
(ps. not disrespecting baba ishar ji .. who knows if he really achieved God .... )

Please stop picking on each other and focus more on answering the questions he raised.

We (including me) make a mistake of labelling people with titles such as BrahmGyani and we don't even think about it.

It's clearly written in Sukhmani Sahib that only one BrahmGyani knows the gat of another.

BrahmGyani Ki Gat BrahmGyani Jaane

So what do u think about this? Is labelling of Baba ji as a brahmgyani wrong? Or mayb

e not because you are giving urself the same title?

vaaheguru ji ka khalsa vaaheguru ji ki fateh

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Guest SikhForLife

Son of gur Gobind singh jee!!

nice point veer..

no one knows.. thats what ive been trying to say..

only he himself knows..

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Guest SikhForLife
if you have to find someone who already met guroo through sggs

Guru nanak taught us to take the "middle man" out.. and worship God directly!

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sggs focused more on sadh-sangat (sadhu/sants sangat) than just sangat

i always thought that sadhsangat means sangat of gursikhs and sangat in general in guru sahib's hajooree and not just sadhu/sants (what r the qualifications for being a sadhu or sant?).

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Guest Akaal108

I give him that title because he is the one that changed my life and he deserved it. He was chosen ONE like many other bhramgyanis from akaaal.

And also i have faith in him. I mean pure faith. I know he passed away 30 yrs back. I still has his casettes which i keep them diamonds. And when i listen to them I feel i m in sadh-sangat.. that kinda faith i m talkin about. I cant explain the faith. that was just a lousy attempt but if i want to i cant...i hope you get me now veer. :D )

And the quote you just posted that could be interpretely differently. How i interpret is "One Super Soul knows the essence of its super-soul himself" That got nothing to do with me.

And also there are enough quotes of bhramgyani helping others across the world ocean in sukhmani sahib.. thats i m tryin to do here.. gettin a hold of a bhramgyani!

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